Homosexuality from a Non-Religious perspective

[_Canucklehead]

I just thought that I'd scroll through this thread to see how long it took someone to mention homosexual and bisexual activities that occur in other species. I expected it to be a main topic of this thread beginning on the 2nd or 3rd reply to the OP. Surprisingly, the thread is now on the 5th page and still nobody has mentioned this evidence against the OP's premises.

It seems as though much of the OP's argument against homosexuality is that it is not "natural" because it doesn't lead to reproduction. Therefore, because humans engage in homosexual behaviour, they are subverting nature. However, this view doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

I suggest that the OP read the book Our Inner Ape by Frans de Waal. It is a very easy read and positively captivating. de Waal is a primatologist who has studied apes for decades. In his book, he documents that homosexual and bisexual behaviour is an essential characteristic of bonobo societies. Bonobos are very closely related to chimpanzees but are slightly smaller and are somewhat more matriarchal than chimp societies. Another key difference between bonobos and chimps is that, whilst chimps resolve their political disputes mainly through intimidation and violence, bonobos often resolve theirs via the sharing of food and the trading of sexual favours. de Waal details innumerable examples of how female bonobos resolve disputes via the stimulation of each other's genetalia (what de Waal calls g-g rubbing), manual manipulation of males' genitals and other kinds of affectionate grooming. None of these actions could possibly bring about conception, yet they form an important part of bonobo social and political life.

We share the same percentage of our DNA with bonobos as we do with chimps, meaning that the three species likely descended from a common ancestor. The OP's claim that human homosexual behaviour is "unnatural" because it cannot lead to reproduction is not sustained by the evidence from the fields of evolutionary biology, anthropology and primatology.

[_JAK]

I just thought that I'd scroll through this thread to see how long it took someone to mention homosexual and bisexual activities that occur in other species. I expected it to be a main topic of this thread beginning on the 2nd or 3rd reply to the OP. Surprisingly, the thread is now on the 5th page and still nobody has mentioned this evidence against the OP's premises.

Apparently, you didn’t see my comment on page one of this thread
Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:40 am.

In that post was this:

“Homosexuality and homosexual encounters occur in sexual organisms other than human. Apparently you are unaware of that fact. While such encounters are in the minority, they none-the-less exist and are well documented by study of the biological sciences.”

JAK

[_Canucklehead]

You're right, I didn't see that comment.

I really just skimmed the thread to see what the main lines of argumentation were. I'm still surprised that the anti-homosexuality camp didn't try very hard to rebut your comment, seeing as it utterly destroys the premise that homosexuality is somehow unnatural simply because it doesn't lead to procreation. Maybe they're conceding the point?

[_JAK]

You're right, I didn't see that comment.

I really just skimmed the thread to see what the main lines of argumentation were. I'm still surprised that the anti-homosexuality camp didn't try very hard to rebut your comment, seeing as it utterly destroys the premise that homosexuality is somehow unnatural simply because it doesn't lead to procreation. Maybe they're conceding the point?

Hi Canucklehead,

Rarely to people here “speak” to me. I do not consider that they concede the point. I have address numerous issues and absurd claims only to find there was no response.

However, because of this format, it’s not only possible but likely that one may not see a response. The 2think format allows for a view of what every person has written as well as a “Collapsed Threads” view to see the initial post on a topic of discussion.

On that forum, it is easy to see when someone has responded to a post as well as the subject title which they have give.

JAK