Standing up together to Make a Change within Mormonism.

[_wenglund]

Seems we have to differentiate between "God", that according to you, Wade, cares little about the sufferings of humanity, and the Son-of-God, Jesus, who seems to put suffering humanity as man's number one responsibility:: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, etc. . .

I can't think of a way that my comment could be any more misconstrued than what you just managed--which is remarkable considering that you likely weren't intending to do violence to what I said.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Kishkumen]

Although I am a cruel, heartless dogmatist, who upholds the cause of Doctor Scratch with almost perfectly unwavering fidelity, I would like to add my voice to those who would recommend that you find another hobby or found your own church. If Mormonism is not for you, just stay away. Don't expect to be able to reform Mormonism through any kind of grass roots effort. It simply will not work.

You can, of course, discuss Mormonism to your heart's content. You are free to do anything you like, for that matter. I just happen to think that some projects are best left unattempted. Just my two cents. Feel free to ignore it.

[_Buffalo]

That's a terrible way to run a company. Why is it a good way to run a church?

Are you suggesting that the foot ought to be telling the head how to think and manage the affairs of the body? if so, then perhaps you are letting your foot do the thinking right now. LOL

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I'm saying that if the head doesn't listen to the foot when it says it's hurting, it's likely to die from gangrene.

There is no mechanism for feedback in the LDS church. Effectively it is numb from the neck down. The head doesn't want to know what any other part thinks.

[_Buffalo]

I think all the starving babies in Africa would agree with you that God is doing a bang up job at the moment.

Maybe it really is time for a management change, both in the church and at the "higher levels".

If the elimination of hunger were God's goal for mortal life, then you may have a point. It isn't, and so you don't. Instead, what you inadvertently demonstrate is a marked lack of familiarity with God's plan and the intents and purpose of his gospel--which is all the more reason you and others aren't in a position to lecture the Church about how to do its job.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Starving babies: all a part of God's merciful plan!

[_Kishkumen]

I'm saying that if the head doesn't listen to the foot when it says it's hurting, it's likely to die from gangrene.

There is no mechanism for feedback in the LDS church. Effectively it is numb from the neck down. The head doesn't want to know what any other part thinks.

I am afraid that your analogy falls down in that this particular head is led about by a divine chain that is held in the hands of a god with miraculous healing powers.

Sorry to disagree.

[_Buffalo]

I'm saying that if the head doesn't listen to the foot when it says it's hurting, it's likely to die from gangrene.

There is no mechanism for feedback in the LDS church. Effectively it is numb from the neck down. The head doesn't want to know what any other part thinks.

I am afraid that your analogy falls down in that this particular head is led about by a divine chain that is held in the hands of a god with miraculous healing powers.

Sorry to disagree.

And of course their track record shows that their powers of discernment are what you might expect from men claiming to be prophets, seers and revelators. :D

[_Kishkumen]

And of course their track record shows that their powers of discernment are what you might expect from men claiming to be prophets, seers and revelators. :D

Sometimes that divine hand leads one right into a brick wall for one's own good. The saving grace is the healing power after the pounding.

[_wenglund]

It isn't? Not even one of God's goals? Maybe down the list a bit? And you know it isn't exactly how? Last I recall both the New Testament and the Book of Mormon tell us to bless and feed the poor. Ya might want to rethink this one.

It is wise to thoughtfully consider and reconsider important matters such as this. I have done so multiple times over the years, and have become all the more convinced in the processes. So, let me mention some of the things I have considered and reconsidered in relation to this question that you may have not.

For one, I have considered the omnipotence and loving nature of God, and figured that if God's objective was to eliminate hunger and poverty, he had the power to have done so long ago. In fact, in the minds of those of us who believe, he could have created the world in such a way that hunger and poverty would not have existed to begin with.

However, since I believe he created a world where there has been much hunger and poverty over the many millennia of mortal existence, and has not himself eliminated it, and has even declared through Christ that "The poor you will always have with you" (Mt 26:11), this suggest to me that elimination of these things is not his objective.

As such, he must have some other transcendent purpose in mind for not only allowing hunger and poverty to continue during mortality, but also in commanding his followers to bless and feed the poor. To me, there is a reason that God sent us, his beloved children, away from the abundance of his heavenly home, down to inhabit the lone and dreary world.

And, as I understand the gospel and plan of progression and salvation, that transcendent purpose is to enable God’s children to progress to become like him--and this not only by their learning and growing through the things they would suffer and overcome, but also by developing the Christ-like attributes of empathy (mourning with those who mourn) and charitable love (succoring those in need) for others.

This kind of growth is not possible except there be things like hunger and poverty. As such, elimination of hunger and poverty may not only not be God’s objective, but it may also be at cross purposes with God’s transcendent objective.

Of course, I am not suggesting that God doesn’t desire for us to work to minimize the ravages of hunger and poverty. He does desire for us to work towards that end (as you and others have pointed out). But, that is somewhat different from wanting to eliminate poverty, and it completely opposite from God supposedly caring little about the suffering of humanity.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

I'm saying that if the head doesn't listen to the foot when it says it's hurting, it's likely to die from gangrene.

There is no mechanism for feedback in the LDS church. Effectively it is numb from the neck down. The head doesn't want to know what any other part thinks.

You obviously haven't been in leadership positions in the Church or been a home teacher or visiting teacher--or at the very least, had no clue as to the purpose of these positions. Contempt can have that blinding effect on some people.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_wenglund]

And of course their track record shows that their powers of discernment are what you might expect from men claiming to be prophets, seers and revelators. :D

Sometimes that divine hand leads one right into a brick wall for one's own good. The saving grace is the healing power after the pounding.

I prefer to look at it like the loving hands of a father letting go so that the toddler can learn to walk confidently on its own, and this knowing that the toddler will at times stumble and fall--understanding that the benefits of walking outweigh the risks and harm of falling, particularly when there are loving hands to pick us up and brush us off and comfort and encourage us on our life journey.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-