Glass & Steel in the Book of Mormon, why a problem?

[_Runtu]

There really is no reason to believe David Whitmer about very much and that goes for the whole host of characters associated with Joe Smith, Jesus Christ, and so on down the line. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. That is why I have said it is essential to speak with God to be Mormon; otherwise, there really isn't any reason to believe in any of it. Come on - Joseph Smith claimed to have seen God, angels, gold books - what else do you need to doubt him? It is patently absurd, unless God shows up and tells you it is true.

He told me it wasn't true, which is nice because it accords with the evidence.

[_Tobin]

He told me it wasn't true, which is nice because it accords with the evidence.

Yes, you keep saying that. But what strikes me as odd is you don't tell us what IS true and if Mormonism isn't for you - why keep picking at it? No discussion will ever convince you that it is true so this seems like a pointless waste of time.

[_Drifting]

I mean Jaredites, lived in Central America.

The battles of the Nephites or Jaredites didn't happen where the Book of Mormon was left for Joseph Smith. It was buried up in NY for Joseph Smith to find. Another bad assumption that they are the same place.

I wasn't calling CFR on where the Jaredites didn't live.
I was calling CFR on your statement that they lived in Central America.

As for the Hill Cumorah not being 'the' hill of the Book of Mormon - why have Prophets got it wrong and you have it right?

[_Runtu]

Yes, you keep saying that. But what strikes me as odd is you don't tell us what IS true and if Mormonism isn't for you - why keep picking at it? No discussion will ever convince you that it is true so this seems like a pointless waste of time.

Why would I bother telling you what is true when you are convinced I'm wrong? That would indeed be pointless.

What I don't understand is why, if your belief rests solely on a visitation of some kind, you insist on trying to find rational reasons to believe. If you're going to use sky hooks, use them unashamedly.

[_Themis]

Yes, you keep saying that. But what strikes me as odd is you don't tell us what IS true and if Mormonism isn't for you - why keep picking at it? No discussion will ever convince you that it is true so this seems like a pointless waste of time.

Why would I bother telling you what is true when you are convinced I'm wrong? That would indeed be pointless.

What I don't understand is why, if your belief rests solely on a visitation of some kind, you insist on trying to find rational reasons to believe. If you're going to use sky hooks, use them unashamedly.

I find it interesting that he wants to debate the issues here, but then states that all we need is to see or expereince God, and gets on others for supposedly not seeking God. Yet his story seems to be that he did not seek God, nor was he worthy or deserving of it. What is unfortunate is too many like him lack critical thinking skills. This is evident here when one keeps bringing up Fair and Farms information without ever really evaluating it to see how accurate it is. Some people really should try to get other sources.

[_Tobin]

I wasn't calling CFR on where the Jaredites didn't live.
I was calling CFR on your statement that they lived in Central America.
As for the Hill Cumorah not being 'the' hill of the Book of Mormon - why have Prophets got it wrong and you have it right?

I've already stated my reasons numerous times. If you wish to present some kind of cogent counter-argument, I will be happy to address that.

[_bcuzbcuz]

There really is no reason to believe David Whitmer about very much and that goes for the whole host of characters associated with Joe Smith, Jesus Christ, and so on down the line. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. That is why I have said it is essential to speak with God to be Mormon; otherwise, there really isn't any reason to believe in any of it. Come on - Joseph Smith claimed to have seen God, angels, gold books - what else do you need to doubt him? It is patently absurd, unless God shows up and tells you it is true.

God loves all of his children......It's just that he loves some of his children more than others. God shows up and delivers his message of truth to some.....while completely ignoring others. I marvel that he has found so many Americans worthy of his bounty, whether they be Mormon or others.

As someone who watches American news from a distant shore, who watches many a documentary and follows the politics of the most powerful nation in the world, with a mixture of both awe and fear, I wonder why Americans see themselves as the "chosen of God". God seems to talk to a hell of a lot more Americans than he does of anyone else on this planet.

I'm going to make an assumption and correct me if I'm wrong but you, Tobin, live in the Usa and have never lived in another country, at least not in a poverty stricken country. No, wait, missionary time doesn't count, because unless you broke all the mission rules I know, you wouldn't be allowed to work at a regular job while on your mission, thus not earn a salary in that country. Tourist doesn't count either. Staying at an all-inclusive resort doesn't exactly count as living in a foreign country.

Why would this be even slightly relevant? If you don't understand the question, THAT is part of the whole problem.

[_Tobin]

Why would this be even slightly relevant? If you don't understand the question, THAT is part of the whole problem.

You have that exactly right. I don't understand the question or what it has anything to even remotely do with puppy licks and rainbows?

[_Tobin]

Why would I bother telling you what is true when you are convinced I'm wrong? That would indeed be pointless.
What I don't understand is why, if your belief rests solely on a visitation of some kind, you insist on trying to find rational reasons to believe. If you're going to use sky hooks, use them unashamedly.

I find it interesting that he wants to debate the issues here, but then states that all we need is to see or expereince God, and gets on others for supposedly not seeking God. Yet his story seems to be that he did not seek God, nor was he worthy or deserving of it. What is unfortunate is too many like him lack critical thinking skills. This is evident here when one keeps bringing up Fair and Farms information without ever really evaluating it to see how accurate it is. Some people really should try to get other sources.

Two words: peanut gallery. Snide asides don't make an argument; neither does trying to evaluate Mormonism in a vacuum make any sense. I'd recommend the following for you: get a hobby like making model boats. You'll probably get a lot better at that than you ever will at understanding Mormonism.

[_Buffalo]

You'll probably get a lot better at that than you ever will at understanding Mormonism.

Are you under the impression that anyone here (aside from ldsfaqs) doesn't understand Mormonism?