The LDS members and the Kingdom of God

[_Roger Morrison]

It is my understanding that most of the people on these boards who left the LDS faith have joined the world. I am waiting for someone to tell me otherwise.

Hi Frank!

You know that this is not true with me. I left the Mormon Church and grew closer to God. And from the perspective that I hold now, those who are active members of the Mormon Church are still joined with the world.

Perhaps we have a difference of opinion as to what 'world' is?

I define world as functioning according to the negativity of the world, or living with feelings of lack, under the delusion of separation, causing one to seek for self alone.

Signs of not being of the world are:

1. Living according to the Christ Presence and Power within, instead of simply reacting to what happens to one's self.

2. Seeing God in all things, whether apparently auspicious or inauspicious. Giving praise and thanks to God for all that God has given, even that which is unpleasant.

3. Able to love all, including one's enemies.

4. Seeking or desiring happiness, healing, illumination - the good, for all, and resting in faith that what does unfold in this world is all according God's Will. Our heart wish though being for the elimination of suffering, of all, and having faith that our heart wish will be granted, in God's timing and Wisdom.

5. Always keeping our eye focused above, beyond our self, into the heavens. Living in constant prayer for this world. Expecting in faith the liberation of all beings.

Those who are not able to live in this manner, which is obeying Christ's Commandments and abiding in His Word, are still of the world. They have not yet matured sufficiently to 'come our of her'. I believe though that those gathered at a Board such as this one, are maturing, are seeking and will soon come out of her, or the world. If not in this life, then soon after.

Shalom!

Sheryl

Hey Sheryl!
Love your thoughts!
If only Christianism taught, and lived by, such Christ like principles and practices!! WOW!!! Congrats on your perceptions. . .
I agree. Time and evolving humanity can bring into being such a society. However, THE big obstacle is Christianity's obsession with sin and salvation, Armagedon, resurrection and the next life. YIKES! IT'S THIS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE NEXT/ANOTHER????????????

Although, I do think there are more enlightened groups emerging from commercialized religion, they still orchestrate the mainstream faith-based Christian-Church-World. . . Their longevity is somewhat discouraging as they proselytize, world wide, a model vastly different from the cooperative, humanitarian model Jesus personified. As I see it. . .
Peace & Love,
Roger

[_sheryl]

Hey Sheryl!
Love your thoughts!
If only Christianism taught, and lived by, such Christ like principles and practices!! WOW!!! Congrats on your perceptions. . .
I agree. Time and evolving humanity can bring into being such a society. However, THE big obstacle is Christianity's obsession with sin and salvation, Armagedon, resurrection and the next life. YIKES! IT'S THIS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE NEXT/ANOTHER????????????

Although, I do think there are more enlightened groups emerging from commercialized religion, they still orchestrate the mainstream faith-based Christian-Church-World. . . Their longevity is somewhat discouraging as they proselytize, world wide, a model vastly different from the cooperative, humanitarian model Jesus personified. As I see it. . .
Peace & Love,
Roger

Hi Roger!

There is much confusion regarding the definitions of these words - sin, salvation, resurrection, Armageddon, and the next life. Leading to much discord in discussions.

The tradition that I follow was oral - all teachings were passed down orally from mouth to ear, true knowing coming from each's inner experiencing or expansion of consciousness/awareness, actually experiencing what was taught verbally. And it is this inner experiencing and true knowing that results in one being able to emulate Christ, walk as he walked.

When the Nag Hammadi library was found, the Gnostic texts discovered reflected these same teachings found in our oral traditions, so we began to call ourselves 'Gnostic'. But first and foremost we are Christian - offering a Christian path to enlightenment.

(One difference between these and other Gnostic texts and what we know as Biblical Gospels is that the former contain the teachings given by the Risen Messiah, and the latter, the teachings given before death and Resurrection.)

One such teaching is that you will not know the Resurrection fully in the 'after life' if you have not experienced something of it while the body still lives. And so while there are indeed many groups appearing more enlightened emerging from the commercialized religions, only those who are led by men and women knowing the Resurrection can be truly call enlightened. And these existed long before recent times, long before this recent emerging.

Such emerging though reflects the readiness of this world for spreading the True Gospel to all 'four corners'.

Shalom!

Sheryl

[_Franktalk]

Hi Frank!

You know that this is not true with me.

Shalom!

Sheryl

Yes you are a bright spot in a rather dark world. There are many seekers that would love to have your understanding but they are afraid. The world is a big driver of fear. Once someone embraces the fear as described by the world their progress stops. Fear of death, fear of rejection by their peers, fear of the unknown,and so on. Many think that the meek of the world live in fear. In some worldly sense that is true but the spiritual are strong. It takes a very strong person to embrace death and walk towards death. The world is ready to use the fear of death to make people even more worldly.

The LDS church has many people in it that are very spiritual. But it seems you did not run into any on your path. It does seem though you made the right choice.

Frank

[_Themis]

Yes you are a bright spot in a rather dark world. There are many seekers that would love to have your understanding but they are afraid. The world is a big driver of fear. Once someone embraces the fear as described by the world their progress stops. Fear of death, fear of rejection by their peers, fear of the unknown,and so on. Many think that the meek of the world live in fear. In some worldly sense that is true but the spiritual are strong. It takes a very strong person to embrace death and walk towards death. The world is ready to use the fear of death to make people even more worldly.

The LDS church has many people in it that are very spiritual. But it seems you did not run into any on your path. It does seem though you made the right choice.

Frank

LOL Everyone who doesn't believe what Frank believes must be of the world and afraid as well. Somehow being smart enough to realize that sitting down and stupidly trying to preach to people in a burning building is not the best idea, and instead being smart enough to realize that maybe you should just start grabbing people and hauling them out. Of course with frank this makes you worldly and afraid of death. Frank, maybe it might be you who is in need of mental help.

[_Drifting]

Themis,

As the restrainer leaves the earth the powers of Satan will manifest. My guess is that around 5% of the faithful will remain faithful. I hope I am wrong. My hope is that billions are martyred.

We ain't in Kansas anymore...

[_Roger Morrison]

Franktalk said:

Yes you are a bright spot in a rather dark world. There are many seekers that would love to have your understanding but they are afraid. The world is a big driver of fear. Once someone embraces the fear as described by the world their progress stops. Fear of death, fear of rejection by their peers, fear of the unknown,and so on. Many think that the meek of the world live in fear. In some worldly sense that is true but the spiritual are strong. It takes a very strong person to embrace death and walk towards death. The world is ready to use the fear of death to make people even more worldly.


I agree, FEAR is a big driver of insecure people. I find it amusing that many who say they live-by-faith are afraid to pick up hitch-hikers and aspire to gated communities??
The bed-mate of fear and insecurity is GREED! Gotta have more!! Why? To look/feel more attractive, accepted, righteous, important. . . I suggest, yes! I was there. LOL!
The world power/wealth hungry has always used fear, of more than death, to achieve their ends... At the same time they can literally 'make' folks run into the jaws of death for God and country, and all things under the shadow of those two dynamic persuasions.

Yes, the spiritual are strong, because of their confident disposition. Whether Theist or Atheist it matters not... To paraphrase: the aware & confident walk where the ignorant and ill-prepared fear to tread. . .

Question: In your opinion, do you see the LDS Church as one of those making, "...people even more worldly." by their use of "...the fear of death..."

"Fear not...." Roger

[_Franktalk]

Question: In your opinion, do you see the LDS Church as one of those making, "...people even more worldly." by their use of "...the fear of death..."

"Fear not...." Roger

The LDS church has no power. The LDS church does not command the thoughts of anyone and the church respects free will.

In a similar way when the RCC went apostate the members were still free to be saved by their faith in God. The LDS church and the RCC does not have the power to save anyone or deny someone from being saved. All of these things are a personal choice. A doctrine is a meaningless bunch of words unless you give those words power.

[_Roger Morrison]

Question: In your opinion, do you see the LDS Church as one of those making, "...people even more worldly." by their use of "...the fear of death..."

"Fear not...." Roger[/quot

The LDS church has no power. The LDS church does not command the thoughts of anyone and the church respects free will.

In a similar way when the RCC went apostate the members were still free to be saved by their faith in God. The LDS church and the RCC does not have the power to save anyone or deny someone from being saved. All of these things are a personal choice. A doctrine is a meaningless bunch of words unless you give those words power.

The LDS church has great influence and the self-assumed authority to declare a person 'worthy, or not, to enter a degree of eternal glory / damnation, as LDS hieararchy, authorized by the HMPH declares. Seems that could be considered 'power'.

But you are correct, only within the LDS jurisdiction. . . Now God's / Nature's power IS real! It shows no respect of persons! In the path of a tornado you get it! Not in the path you don't!

So in effect, are you suggesting the LDS church is basically a powerless, "meaningless bunch of words". . .? Until it is purchased, then the 'power' is turned on to light up life?
IF you keep the account paid up? Maybe too personal? But do you, Frank, have a LDS account? In arrears?

Enjoying our dialogue. Thank you. Roger

[_Drifting]

Many are called to be martyrs today and many more will be called in the not too distance future.

CFR

[_sheryl]

LOL Everyone who doesn't believe what Frank believes must be of the world and afraid as well. Somehow being smart enough to realize that sitting down and stupidly trying to preach to people in a burning building is not the best idea, and instead being smart enough to realize that maybe you should just start grabbing people and hauling them out. Of course with frank this makes you worldly and afraid of death. Frank, maybe it might be you who is in need of mental help.

Hi Themis!

For the disciples I know, this world is a burning building, and the only way out is not by avoiding the fire, but journeying within, finding Christ within and thus being transformed into fire.

This is what Jesus meant when he said that he came to baptize this world with fire, to set this world on fire. This is what is meant when it is said that God is a burning fire.

This kind of spiritual fire destroys everything that is not like it, or rather turns everything into itself. Thus the "preaching" I was advocating is for helping others to become like the fire, or to find their true self within that is like fire, so that when the fire destroys their outer being, knowing themselves as more, they do not die.

This is why the followers of Christ do not fear death, do not fear burning buildings, for they know who they truly are, and know that while fire destroys buildings, bodies, etc, it will not destroy them. And this is not just a concept. It is knowing this inner self and being able to move one's consciousness away from the outer being, to separate oneself from this limited self view snd letting it fall to fire, and even rejoicing in the fire.

Thus disciples of Christ see that the Revelation of John is not speaking about destruction, but freedom, freeing humans from bondage to a limited self, or bondage to the fear of death of this limited self. Revelation is a description of being in the world that is a burning fire.

Disciples of Christ do not become martyrs in the traditional sense. They willingly lay down their physical clothes for the benefit of others. Knowing it is not really a sacrifice, it is a natural act of love, like giving of oneself to those in need. They have awakened within to themselves as an infinite eternal being. The physical body just being a temporary abode for this infinite being.

[I must add that laying down one's physical life even for a disciple is not necessary a piece of cake, for the death of the physical clothes hurts, but through prayer and aligning with the will of God, they become able to move through the suffering and 'transfer the consciousness' that was aligned with the physical body, to the infinite body. "Into your hands I commit my Spirit" - Jesus. We all practice a taste of this each night when we fall asleep.]

This is what 'enlightenment' or salvation is all about. The personality finding its true self - this infinite being within, Christ within, and aligning with it, thus finding eternal life. It not about earning eternal life, as though God hands out get out of jail free cards, it is about finding eternal life within oneself.

Shalom!
Sheryl