Why Must There Be a God?

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_Franktalk
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _Franktalk »

spotlight wrote:The God explanation doesn't agree with ERV evidence. It doesn't agree with junk DNA evidence. It doesn't agree with pseudogene evidence or the evidence of LINES and SINES in the DNA. Why for example would a human have genes for egg yolk production that happen to be in the same location as those animals that lay eggs but mutated just enough to no longer be viable?


The layers and layers of assumptions in your remarks are just amazing. You see, God is a funny guy and wishes everyone a good time. He treats us like a child. He even gives us junk DNA for scientist to play with. Isn't God great.

When I make something I use parts from various places. I assemble them into my new device. When done I know I built the new device. I don't analyze the new device and say evolution did it because it contains parts from other things. Your science colored glasses do not allow you to think in any other way than what you were taught. I am sorry but you are a parrot. You can be replaced with a book. The world is a wonderful place if you let it amaze you. Just ponder the many ways this place could have been made. Don't fixate on one thing. Enjoy an open mind and let in all kinds of possibilities. Life is way more fun when you are not pinned down to one paradigm.

I enjoy science but I don't let it take me over. I enjoy discussing God but I don't let it take me over. I enjoy my freedom. Try it sometime.
_spotlight
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _spotlight »

Franktalk wrote:Spotlight,

Do you think that evolution has stopped? If it has not then it should be going on all around us. Life should be self forming as we write these posts. If the conditions on the earth are similar to early earth then we should have around us all stages of evolution. But we don't. Now why is that? It could be it never happened the way many feel it did. Or something has changed on the earth which prevents self forming life now. I am suggesting that scientist concentrate their efforts on past environments. That is all.

If I am wrong on this please explain why we do not have RNA replicators on this planet today.


Abiogenesis and evolution are two separate topics. Evolution is certainly ongoing but I'm sure you meant abiogenesis.

Abiogensis requires a high concentration of chemicals that can be used as building blocks, you know, the stuff that already extent organisms are using for food. Currently protocells are without defense and vulnerable to organisms that have a jump on them of billions of years of optimization in killing and eating lesser life forms. In the competition that is evolution the species that lose go extinct, how much more the starting life forms!

Some further discussion here:
http://biology.stackexchange.com/questi ... appen-once
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_spotlight
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _spotlight »

Franktalk wrote:The layers and layers of assumptions in your remarks are just amazing.

Funny that. I see you as the one with layers and layers of "assumptions."

You see, God is a funny guy and wishes everyone a good time. He treats us like a child. He even gives us junk DNA for scientist to play with. Isn't God great.

So your defense is a deceptive god that arranged the evidence to look as if evolution happened. He also fabricated false radioisotope data to make it look as if it happened over billions of years. He fabricated non radioactive isotope fraction data that agrees with the former. He fabricated geologic data that shows the days were shorter in the past due to a receding moon. It sure seems as if this god really REALLY wants us to think the earth is very old. Given the existence of your god, who am I to go against his wishes? He evidently wants me to believe the earth is old and life evolved so that is what I'll do. Otherwise this god might become angry and punish me with a credulous mind.

When I make something I use parts from various places. I assemble them into my new device.

Do you waste time and energy including parts that serve no purpose?

When done I know I built the new device. I don't analyze the new device and say evolution did it because it contains parts from other things.

This simplistic picture misses the bulk of the data that demonstrates evolution. That being the change in organisms over the history of the earth. You see at a certain point in geologic history cats and dogs did not exist but an animal did that has common characteristics of both. Also when an evolutionary change comes along it ends up in all subsequent life forms. Kind of like the Russian dolls that fit into each other. Once a tube evolved we all inherited it. One end became the mouth and the other can't be mentioned here in the celestial forum. Give this video a watch.

10th foundational falsehood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MXTBGc ... 3015CFDD28

Your science colored glasses do not allow you to think in any other way

I'll agree with this. But what is it to think in a scientific way? It is a way of thinking that makes no assumptions, that clears the slate clean and asks where the data leads us? There really isn't any better way to think that I am aware of.

...than what you were taught.

Yes, how awful for mankind to accumulate knowledge and pass it on from one generation to the next. If you are living in a cave then you have a right to make this criticism otherwise it is hypocritical for you to do so.

I am sorry but you are a parrot. You can be replaced with a book.

Do you accept the fact that the earth is not flat and orbits the sun? If so, then there are those who make the same observation about you. You can find them here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

The world is a wonderful place if you let it amaze you.

You mean like the sunset thing? I don't find that understanding Rayleigh scattering of light diminishes my enjoyment of a good sunset in the least.

Just ponder the many ways this place could have been made.

Are we to remain ponderers forever and never arrive at the answer? There is nothing wrong with this as a starting point. But using the data we can eliminate some of those ways as the evidence provides constraints on the possible answers.

Don't fixate on one thing.

I didn't. Only as all the evidence coming together painted the same exact picture and corroborated each other in a consistent picture of what happened. No reason exists for that to be the case if there was a random creative entity involved.

Enjoy an open mind and let in all kinds of possibilities. Life is way more fun when you are not pinned down to one paradigm.

Try a little LSD? Been there done that, Ooops LDS.

I enjoy science but I don't let it take me over. I enjoy discussing God but I don't let it take me over. I enjoy my freedom. Try it sometime.

Yeah, no thanks. The freedom to think the earth is flat is enjoyed by some but it doesn't do anything for me. Besides, its an affront to the brave individuals of the past who gave countless hours of sacrifice, some of whom lost their lives as a result. I think the proper thing to do is to hold on tenaciously to every bit of progress our species is capable of.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_Franktalk
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _Franktalk »

spotlight wrote:Abiogenesis and evolution are two separate topics. Evolution is certainly ongoing but I'm sure you meant abiogenesis.

Abiogensis requires a high concentration of chemicals that can be used as building blocks, you know, the stuff that already extent organisms are using for food. Currently protocells are without defense and vulnerable to organisms that have a jump on them of billions of years of optimization in killing and eating lesser life forms. In the competition that is evolution the species that lose go extinct, how much more the starting life forms!

Some further discussion here:
http://biology.stackexchange.com/questi ... appen-once


Oh please, we have billions of places with all of the building blocks without those pesky bacteria. It is called canned food. A sterile environment just waiting for new life to jump out at us as we open a can. How come I don't find RNA duplicators in there when I open a can?

Or do I have to leave it on the shelf for a billion years?

You know you have a whole list of reasons why you can't duplicate what nature did. Has it ever occurred to you that the simple answer is actually the answer.

http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Pack ... -each-year

124 billion science experiments per year. And not one new creature comes out. Now why is that?
_spotlight
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _spotlight »

Franktalk wrote:
Oh please, we have billions of places with all of the building blocks without those pesky bacteria. It is called canned food. A sterile environment just waiting for new life to jump out at us as we open a can. How come I don't find RNA duplicators in there when I open a can?

Or do I have to leave it on the shelf for a billion years?

You know you have a whole list of reasons why you can't duplicate what nature did. Has it ever occurred to you that the simple answer is actually the answer.

http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Pack ... -each-year

124 billion science experiments per year. And not one new creature comes out. Now why is that?


Frank, you taking lessons from the peanut butter man. :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

If you watched the videos you'd have noticed that we have gotten as far as self replicating molecules that get trapped inside of protocell membranes. That's really all that is necessary to kick things off despite your protests.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_Franktalk
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _Franktalk »

spotlight wrote:Frank, you taking lessons from the peanut butter man. :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

If you watched the videos you'd have noticed that we have gotten as far as self replicating molecules that get trapped inside of protocell membranes. That's really all that is necessary to kick things off despite your protests.


Then why haven't you kicked them off? Then watch them evolve. Just prove it.
_spotlight
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _spotlight »

Franktalk wrote:Then why haven't you kicked them off? Then watch them evolve. Just prove it.


I think its being done.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 173205.htm

http://www.scripps.edu/news/press/2014/ ... joyce.html

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/va ... bal=remove

Where's your open mindedness now? Not so important when the man in the sky is not necessary is it?
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_Franktalk
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Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:28 am

Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _Franktalk »

spotlight wrote:
Franktalk wrote:Then why haven't you kicked them off? Then watch them evolve. Just prove it.


I think its being done.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 173205.htm

http://www.scripps.edu/news/press/2014/ ... joyce.html

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/va ... bal=remove

Where's your open mindedness now? Not so important when the man in the sky is not necessary is it?


Sorry, you can't make a system of duplication machines and then be wowed when they duplicate. It may impress you but not me.

I suspect the entire universe is predisposed to make life. Our brain structure is pretty close to the structure of the universe. But science has not figured it out yet. I would love to see it.
_Franktalk
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _Franktalk »

If you are going to make small machines then make them do something useful.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/resea ... gned-46388
_spotlight
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Re: Why Must There Be a God?

Post by _spotlight »

Franktalk wrote:I suspect the entire universe is predisposed to make life.

Well that's progress.

And then a relapse:
Our brain structure is pretty close to the structure of the universe. But science has not figured it out yet. I would love to see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htTLWC1unMc
Last edited by Guest on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
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