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I had a discussion over lunch with a reluctant TBM coworker about The Rules(tm) we obey (past tense for me) as Mormons. We discussed my confusion at the conflicting benefits of following many LDS edicts, like the WoW and how it seems to be missing some important information about health practices that might be useful to humans.

There is some evidence that coffee and wine seem to have some benefits not outlined in the WoW. Ways of preventing heart disease aren't mentioned in the WoW. I also thought it strange that the Lord should direct his prophet to restrict women to a single set of earrings and that men should have none. We also discussed why the Lord would direct a prophet to ban tattoos. Is it really that important?

When I was in my twenties I grew a moustache and I had a member of the bishopric challenge me to follow the prophet and cut it off.

My TBM friend suggested that the Lord gives us these little challenges to prove us and make us stronger so that we can be ready to obey the bigger challenges.

What confuses me -- and this is part of my confusion about the knowldge we are supposed to get from the HG -- is that I actually was as close to being perfect in those "little" things when I was active as I believe anyone can be. I even shaved off my moustache at this counsellor's suggestion and I never drank caffeinated beverages of any type. I have never had a piercing nor a tattoo, either.

Yet, when push came to shove, I questioned the Church and eventually left it despite following the little rules that were supposed to make me be stronger. Do you think that others find the strength I did not in following these more questionable rules and it will protect them from the more challenging aspects of Mormonism?

MormonMendacity wrote:I had a discussion over lunch with a reluctant TBM coworker about The Rules(tm) we obey (past tense for me) as Mormons. We discussed my confusion at the conflicting benefits of following many LDS edicts, like the WoW and how it seems to be missing some important information about health practices that might be useful to humans.

There is some evidence that coffee and wine seem to have some benefits not outlined in the WoW. Ways of preventing heart disease aren't mentioned in the WoW. I also thought it strange that the Lord should direct his prophet to restrict women to a single set of earrings and that men should have none. We also discussed why the Lord would direct a prophet to ban tattoos. Is it really that important?

When I was in my twenties I grew a moustache and I had a member of the bishopric challenge me to follow the prophet and cut it off.

My TBM friend suggested that the Lord gives us these little challenges to prove us and make us stronger so that we can be ready to obey the bigger challenges.

What confuses me -- and this is part of my confusion about the knowldge we are supposed to get from the HG -- is that I actually was as close to being perfect in those "little" things when I was active as I believe anyone can be. I even shaved off my moustache at this counsellor's suggestion and I never drank caffeinated beverages of any type. I have never had a piercing nor a tattoo, either.

Yet, when push came to shove, I questioned the Church and eventually left it despite following the little rules that were supposed to make me be stronger. Do you think that others find the strength I did not in following these more questionable rules and it will protect them from the more challenging aspects of Mormonism?

Sure, some people need to be controlled.

MormonMendacity wrote:I had a discussion over lunch with a reluctant TBM coworker about The Rules(tm) we obey (past tense for me) as Mormons. We discussed my confusion at the conflicting benefits of following many LDS edicts, like the WoW and how it seems to be missing some important information about health practices that might be useful to humans.

What bugs me is that the WofW, as expressly stated in the revelation itself, is not a commandment or rule, but a "suggestion." Since 1833, it's taken on a life of its own and morphed by man into an absolute commandment, which it was never intended to be, in my opinion.

I also thought it strange that the Lord should direct his prophet to restrict women to a single set of earrings and that men should have none.

I don't think it has anything to do with the Lord; rather, it reflects the old-fashioned tastes of very conservative octogenarians.

We also discussed why the Lord would direct a prophet to ban tattoos. Is it really that important?

No. Again, I think it stems solely from the Brethren's 'stuck in the 1950s' perspective of things.

When I was in my twenties I grew a moustache and I had a member of the bishopric challenge me to follow the prophet and cut it off.

Should we also "follow the prophet" and try to look like a 96-year old? ;) The facial hair ban is all about 'image,' nothing more.

My TBM friend suggested that the Lord gives us these little challenges to prove us and make us stronger so that we can be ready to obey the bigger challenges.

That's bunk, in my opinion. It's a control issue, period.

Do you think that others find the strength I did not in following these more questionable rules and it will protect them from the more challenging aspects of Mormonism?

In general, no. Even TBM's grouse at this type of micromanagement. Little things like this often hurt the Church more than a big scandal.

MormonMendacity wrote:
Yet, when push came to shove, I questioned the Church and eventually left it despite following the little rules that were supposed to make me be stronger. Do you think that others find the strength I did not in following these more questionable rules and it will protect them from the more challenging aspects of Mormonism?

I think Shades was the same way, calling himself an "Ambassador for Mormonism". No, I don't think it gives any protection. It might bring reinforcement and a good feeling of accomplishment, but people leave or stay according to their personal level of knowledge, I think. If the WoW made people stronger I don't think Joseph would have had a bar in the Nauvoo House. In theory it's supposed to, if you read section 89. Temperance societies generally began at around the same time the WoW revelation was received, in the early 1800s to mid-1830s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement So it was not unique. People recognised that temperance brought more clarity of thought and better health, but I don't believe this has much bearing on stopping people from questioning Mormonism.

Reasons: (not purposes;-) to assert authority and control for the purpose of subjugation; well-intended, misinformed, misplaced advice; prejudicial standards of one era inappropriate in another; ignorance; fear; insensitivity; frustration; match the 7DA health standards...

Now for tatoos and ear rings: plain and simple stupidy and ignorance of human developmental stages and issues of individuality!! The final display of non-inspiration. Very purposeful, for the discerninig!!

Ray A wrote:

MormonMendacity wrote:
Yet, when push came to shove, I questioned the Church and eventually left it despite following the little rules that were supposed to make me be stronger. Do you think that others find the strength I did not in following these more questionable rules and it will protect them from the more challenging aspects of Mormonism?

I think Shades was the same way, calling himself an "Ambassador for Mormonism". No, I don't think it gives any protection. It might bring reinforcement and a good feeling of accomplishment, but people leave or stay according to their personal level of knowledge, I think. If the WoW made people stronger I don't think Joseph would have had a bar in the Nauvoo House. In theory it's supposed to, if you read section 89. Temperance societies generally began at around the same time the WoW revelation was received, in the early 1800s to mid-1830s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement So it was not unique. People recognised that temperance brought more clarity of thought and better health, but I don't believe this has much bearing on stopping people from questioning Mormonism.

Exactly.

For the most part, Mormons are taught in an information vacuum. The WoW clearly demonstrates this, as most Mormons believe what they are told about the WoW and it is taught in such a way as to make them think that old horny Joe was the very first person in human history to have ever taught that tobacco and hard liquor was not good for the body. Most Mormon have never heard of the "Temperance movement", and frankly would probably dismiss it as anti-mormon propaganda.

The internet Mormons sugar coat the fact that of Joe being a copy cat by saying that god placed the temporance movement on earth to give Joe inspiration.

HELLO? Joe was gods best pen pal, remember? Besides that Joe said god told him about the WoW.

The same applies with his blatant rip off of Swedneborg's degrees of glory, as well as many other point of Mormon theology.

Mormon believers operate under the assumtion that smith was right in all he did. When other facts fly in the face of that assumption the apply elaborate contortion methods to those facts.

Once you back them into a corner with cold hard facts they either lash out in a last effort to defend the time they have wasted believing the lies or they sulk and say something like, "Well I just like the way I feel in the church, so none of these 'facts' bother me."

Roger Morrison wrote:Reasons: (not purposes;-) to assert authority and control for the purpose of subjugation; well-intended, misinformed, misplaced advice; prejudicial standards of one era inappropriate in another; ignorance; fear; insensitivity; frustration; match the 7DA health standards...

Now for tatoos and ear rings: plain and simple stupidy and ignorance of human developmental stages and issues of individuality!! The final display of non-inspiration. Very purposeful, for the discerninig!!

Hi Roger,

Do you also think rules may be used for psychology purposes of differentiating from other religious groups? If all churches or sects were pretty much the same, people would find switching out of the group to another sect fairly easy. The more differentiation which sets them apart, the less likely the switch. Once people are mentally committed to Mormonism, then following peculiar rules enables them to differentiate themselves but as well some of the rules gives followers a sense of superiority over other groups.

Didn't the Prophet Joseph Smith drink alcohol?

Jersey Girl

Jersey Girl wrote:Didn't the Prophet Joseph Smith drink alcohol?

Jersey Girl

Yes.

In a forthcoming book on the Joseph Smith Papers, he is quoted as saying something like "Whiskey whiskey whiskey, how can I live without my whiskey"

Again, most Mormons live in an information vacuum.

Then again, according to the Mormon apostle Boyd Packer, "Some things that are true are not very useful."

Marg raises a good point about religious differentiation, yet it seems like the Church is now trying to mainstream. I know in South America a lot of members up to the Stake President level are fine with Decaf coffee. Perhaps this is evidence of further mainstreaming.

I remember Professor Wooley would always make a point to tell the Senior missionaries at the SMTC that in reality Joseph Smith did drink alcohol because it upset him when they would tell people otherwise, probably because they were simply misinformed.

On a side note, I can't help but ask, "Whoever decided which words were swear words anyway?"