What's Your Take on Near Death Experiences?

[_Confed]

Am reading an LDS book called The Messaage and wondered if anyone has any opinions on NDEs. LDS NDEs reflect LDS beliefs, which are to be expected, but do Hindus have similar experiences where they're greeted by a bunch of holy cows? (Sorry, couldn't resist...). But you get my drift. Are these delusions? Do folks who call Mormons "cultists" have NDEs where their religious beliefs are reinforced? Where Mormons might see Joseph Smith or Brigham Young running around in Paradise, others might see them in the other place. It's always been fascinating to read about such things.

by the way, has anyone else on this board ever have one of these experiences?

[_Dr. Shades]

One of our members, Ray A, has researched NDEs a great deal.

I'll drop him a PM and ask him to look into this thread.

[_Ray A]

LDS NDEs reflect LDS beliefs, which are to be expected, but do Hindus have similar experiences where they're greeted by a bunch of holy cows? (Sorry, couldn't resist...).

All NDEs have basic similarities, but people from different cultures/religions have differences. I believe it is the Japanese, or Orientals, who record caves, or going through caves, rather than a "tunnel" of light. Kevin Williams, who I consider to be the most informed non-academic expert on NDEs, has recorded on his site that people from religions other than Christianity "understand" the "Being of Light" in terms of their religious figures, for example a Buddhist would understand the Being of light to be Buddha. Reincarnation is also figured more prominently in Eastern NDEs, but also to a lesser extent in "Western" NDEs. http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research35.html

This is Kevin's site: http://www.near-death.com/

Mellen-Thomas Benedict, who was dead for over an hour, recorded:

"There was this light shining. I turned toward the light. The light was very similar to what many other people have described in their near-death experiences. It was so magnificent. It is tangible; you can feel it. It is alluring; you want to go to it like you would want to go to your ideal mother's or father's arms.

"As I began to move toward the light, I knew intuitively that if I went to the light, I would be dead.

"So as I was moving toward the light I said, "Please wait a minute, just hold on a second here. I want to think about this; I would like to talk to you before I go."

"To my surprise, the entire experience halted at that point. You are indeed in control of your near-death experience. You are not on a roller coaster ride. So my request was honored and I had some conversations with the light. The light kept changing into different figures, like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, mandalas, archetypal images and signs.

"I asked the light, "What is going on here? Please, light, clarify yourself for me. I really want to know the reality of the situation."

"I cannot really say the exact words, because it was sort of telepathy. The light responded. The information transferred to me was that your beliefs shape the kind of feedback you are getting before the light. If you were a Buddhist or Catholic or Fundamentalist, you get a feedback loop of your own stuff. You have a chance to look at it and examine it, but most people do not."

Comment: Mr. Benedict's near-death revelation suggests that not only are the Higher Selves of Jesus, Buddha and Krishna, one and the same, but all of humanity's Higher Selves are one and the same. Perhaps we are different aspects of the same Higher Spirit.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen045.html

]But you get my drift. Are these delusions?

Despite what you may hear from both the pro and con "hardliners", scientists are still seriously investigating the phenomenon and to date there is NO conclusion about whether they are real or brain induced. These are just opinions so far, but "fundamentalists" of both ilk like to portray a picture of certainty, one way or the other. My jury is still out too, but I feel 90% certain they are real. The main reason for this is because it is recorded in black and white, proof, that many of these people were clinically dead, that is had NO brain function while they had these experiences. There are even records of people being dead several days and coming back to life with vivid memories which they often say was "more real than life itself". For them experiencing is believing.

Do folks who call Mormons "cultists" have NDEs where their religious beliefs are reinforced? Where Mormons might see Joseph Smith or Brigham Young running around in Paradise, others might see them in the other place. It's always been fascinating to read about such things.

I have only read a very few NDEs which included Joseph Smith, and he is never figured prominently. One experiencer wanted to talk to Joseph Smith but was told he was "unavailable". Surprisingly, perhaps, even Mormon NDEs focus on Christ or the Being of Light (not Joseph Smith) and Betty Eadie, who is a Mormon, was criticised by Boyd K. Packer for "liberalising" the afterlife. Eadie's experiences are very similar to all NDErs, portraying an afterlife free of "ecclesiastical rule", or judgement according to which religion you belong to and religious beliefs. Surveys show that having an NDE makes no difference in religious participation, in fact most tend to shy away from churches though many attend because of the good lifestyle and focus on spirituality, rather than on dogma. "Guides" whom NDErs meet always say that religion is unimportant, but there is an emphasis on Christ (sometimes prophetic figures) and the moral teachings of the Bible. The message is "do unto others...." etc. Which religion you belong to will have NO effect in your afterlife standing, but religions like Mormonism do help people to stay on track in living more moral lives, and that is what counts. Your tithing will mean nothing (except where it helps others, such as the poor), but how you treat others will have a MAJOR effect in your afterlife experience. Every hurt or distress you caused others (not yourself) will be vividly recalled and you will feel the exact pain you inflicted on them, as if you were actually them. This however, is not met with "eternal judgement", it is for your own future progression through learning firsthand where you went wrong, and to improve your behaviour in subsequent progression, which sometimes, but not always, includes "going back" to keep learning (reincarnation). Those who live more worldly lives will continue to reincarnate (not necessarily on this planet either) until they learn to rise above worldly things (which is basically the Buddhist message) and attain "God status", or what is called "Nirvana", a state where we are God, or one with God. Many NDErs say that we are in fact God, one with the Cosmos, but we come here to learn and experience (and we become separated from that original state) which are the two things ALL NDErs say. This life is a learning experience, and learning to love is the most important lesson we have to learn. (Go back to Paul's sermon on charity in 1st Corinthians, without love "we are nothing".) All your selfish ritualistic religious works done "for salvation" which do not focus on others (people) are useless. George Ritchie, who had one of the most powerful NDEs, said in fact that he felt very guilty for being self-righteous because he went to church (before the NDE) and looked down on others who were not as religious. He felt self-condemned for thinking this, and we judge ourselves by the way, there is no God with a big stick waiting to send us permanently to some kingdom forever and ever. That's nonsense. In fact the Mormon idea of a human exalted God living near Kolob is WAY out of the picture of NDEs, and it's even more ridiculous if polygamy is included.

by the way, has anyone else on this board ever have one of these experiences?

I have never had one, but I have talked to people who have, and read hundreds of NDE experiences. I don't see "organised religion" fitting into the pattern except where it helps people to improve their lives, particularly how they treat other people. The Bible and other scriptures are only guidebooks not to be taken literally, but as a "moral compass", which means reading them selectively and extracting the ethical and moral teachings. Which church you are baptised into will be irrelevant. HOW you live will be.

[_Ray A]

Another aspect of the NDE which I should mention is that most NDErs say they dreaded going back into their bodies, some have even cursed those who brought them back to life, others have begged to stay but were told they had not finished their work and had to go back. Often that "work" is to tell others what we now know from their experiences. Call me superstitious, but I believe we have an allotted time here, and we will not die one minute before that time.

[_Mary]

Ray, I always find your opinions and knowledge around this subject to be very interesting.
I have read all the standard NDE books, including Ritchie, also looked into Kubler Ross and the Dutch Studies.

I have never had a NDE, but when my father died I had, I don't know, lucid dreams, visions, periods of great authenticity, I don't know how to describe it really, but one of the questions I asked my father, was which church I should join (among other questions). His reply, was that it didn't seem to matter what church you had belonged to on this earth. That what mattered was how much we loved each other.

My father also told me there was a camera in the house which I should look for. I did, and to my amazement found an old camera from the 80's hidden away in some drawer with a film still in it. When I got the film processed, it was a trip that my father and I had taken, and there he was smiling and waving to me (one of the only pictures that didn't degrade). Could all be coincidence of course, but I don't believe so.

[_Ray A]

Miss Taken,

You may then be interested in the story I wrote for a website, titled "Hannah's Story". Hannah is my daughter. Her mother died of cancer in January 2006, aged 51. Though I tend to be skeptical and certainly don't accept every story told, there are some compelling aspects to what Hannah experienced when she visited a medium to try to contact her mother (and Hannah is a skeptical person, and a very normal teenager more interested in boys than the paranormal, let me assure you). I don't know how the medium could have known some of the things she revealed, and we have this all on tape. Anyway, judge for yourself, and drawn your own conclusions/opinions. I'm reposting it here from my brother's website, but since I'm the author of the article I also hold the copyright.

My daughter Hannah lost her mother to cancer on January 27th this year (2006). About two and a half months later, on her 17th birthday, Hannah paid a visit to a local female medium, or psychic, to see if she could get in contact with her mother. The session was held with three people in attendance, the psychic, Jodie (a close family friend), and Hannah, and was recorded on video cassette. It lasted for just over an hour officially, though the psychic spent more time talking to Hannah after, which was not recorded.

First, a word of explanation as related to Hannah by the psychic. Communication with the dead, according to the psychic, is not always clear and precise, and they often receive communications through feelings, symbols and spontaneous thoughts. Because Hannah’s mother had only been dead for just over two months, the psychic also said that she (her mother) might not be that efficient in communication, as she was not used to it. The psychic sometimes has to connect these symbols and spontaneous thoughts and feelings that come to her, and it can sometimes take a short while to work out what is being communicated. She also mentioned that some of the things communicated might not make immediate sense, but in time, they might unfold to make perfect sense. Psychics can also experience the feelings a deceased person might have had while going through an emotional experience or trauma, particularly about the manner of death, or feelings they wanted to communicate to loved ones.

During the session, the psychic said that Hannah’s mother (whose name is Lyn) was saying something about “a birthday”, “a significant day”, and something about “lighting a candle”. The psychic did not know it was Hannah’s birthday, and when Hannah told her she said “well that’s why, she wants to wish you happy birthday”.

Then Lyn communicated something to the psychic about a “teddy bear”, and Hannah mentioned that her mother had given her a teddy bear before she died. She wanted Hannah to know that her mother was aware Hannah still had the teddy bear and kept it in her bed all the time. Soon after that, the psychic asked Hannah if she had a dream about something coming to life, either the teddy bear or a person. Hannah did in fact have a dream about her mother dying, then in the dream, about forty minutes after she died, her mother woke up and started doing housework, which shocked Hannah. That her mother was aware of the dream that Hannah had also seemed to be a way of communicating that she was still alive, and also knew Hannah’s innermost thoughts.

Then the psychic mentioned something her mother communicated about a pair of earrings, and she asked Hannah if that might have some significance, to which Hannah replied that she had bought her mother a pair of earrings a while ago. The psychic told Hannah that her mother wanted her to know she is still wearing the earrings.

The next message that came through was about a person named “Max”, and Hannah explained that Max was a close family friend who died five years ago. Her mother, through the psychic, told Hannah that she had met Max and was surprised to see him, like going shopping and suddenly bumping into someone you hadn’t seen for a long time.

Then Lyn communicated something about a budgie, and the psychic asked Hannah if a budgie would have any significance. As it turned out one of Hannah’s grandmother’s budgies had died just before Christmas, and Lyn said the budgie was fine, in good health, and there with her.

The psychic then said she was “seeing” a cocker-spaniel type of dog (small dog) who was with Lyn. This was our Cavalier King Charles dog “Caspar”, who died in 2000, also of cancer, and Lyn said that Caspar was now well-groomed and happily with her.

The psychic also asked Hannah if she did art, which was correct, and she said that Hannah had not done art for a while, which was also correct, and she then said her mother was encouraging her to take up her artwork again. Not long after the session Hannah did a beautiful painting of her mother that was very much in her likeness.

At this stage of the session the psychic said she was experiencing difficulty breathing, and she was doing an emotional reenactment of Lyn’s cancer, which had spread to her lungs, and she specifically mentioned that the right lung was the problem, and this was the lung where Lyn’s cancer had struck, as shown by x-rays. The psychic, before this time, had not known exactly how Lyn had died, yet even pinpointed the main diseased lung with accuracy.

Lyn also communicated an impression of the Jenolan Caves. A couple of years ago Hannah went to the Caves with her mother and some friends. She seemed to be reliving old times, and as if saying she remembered the good times they had together at the Caves.

The next impression that came to the psychic was that Hannah was worrying too much, and her mother wanted to impress upon her not to worry about her, because she was fine and happy. Hannah had not been eating or sleeping very well after her mother died, and her mother seemed concerned about this. Hannah confirmed to the psychic that the impression she had was true, she had indeed not been eating or sleeping well since her mother died.

The psychic also asked Hannah if she caught public transport a lot, specifically buses, which Hannah confirmed was her main means of transport to and from school. Her mother wanted her to know that she would not be doing this for much longer. Both Hannah and I puzzled about this one for sometime, as she had not yet obtained her licence, though she was having driving lessons, and I used the car for work traveling from Wollongong to Sydney everyday. I couldn’t imagine how she would find alternative transport to buses. Then, after giving only one week’s notice, I resigned from my work two months after Hannah’s meeting with the psychic, and Hannah has been using the car for school everyday since then. I had no definite plan to leave work until one week before I did, on June 9th, but this revelation turned out to be very accurate.

Towards the end of the session, the psychic communicated that Lyn was happy and that she wanted Hannah to be happy too. Life is not something to be serious about all the time; “it’s like a party, go out and have fun”. This may have been communicated because at the time, her mother’s death was still affecting Hannah and she had not been her normal self since January when her mother died.

The psychic also said that her mother knew Hannah’s thoughts and feelings, and that it was something like Candid Camera, “when you least expect it…I’ll be there, watching you”. This was conveyed in the sense that her mother was looking after her safety and was concerned about her well-being.

There were a number of things revealed in the session that are still yet to be fully understood. Several names of apparently deceased people Lyn met are still unknown to us, and other small pieces of information are still to be worked out. Going away from the psychic, just before Lyn died, about two days before, she started seeing spirit beings, and one of them, she said, was named “Phillip”, whom she said was very tall. “Phillip” told her that he was “waiting for her”. This was somewhat distressing to those at her bedside, because although they knew she only had a short time left, this narration given by Lyn impressed on their minds the reality of her impending death, and the fact that she was very soon going to experience the “crossing over”. The subsequent communications through the psychic have left no doubt in Hannah’s mind that her mother is still very much alive.

A few weeks after Lyn’s death, both Lyn’s widower and Jodie (who was very close to Lyn during her illness) experienced a strong smell of flowers, independent of each other, like a “whoosh”, and both felt that it was an After Death Communication from Lyn. In another recent session, this time with Jodie alone, the psychic mentioned the flowers incident, without knowing anything about it, and she told Jodie that this was indeed a sign from Lyn. Hannah is not a superstitious girl, and not religious at all, if anything she tends to be very skeptical, and is a normal everyday teenager, but she believes her mother communicated some very important things to her, and gave her signs that death is not the end. It may, in fact, only be the beginning of a new adventure.

Ray.

[_Mary]

Ray, thankyou for sharing this.


I think there is so much in this life that we just don't understand or have a clear answer for.

I can only judge my own experience by the way it made me feel. Calm and comforted.

[_Mercury]

Individuals such as pilots and astronauts engaged in centrifuge training have reported similar experiences while passed out from too many G's.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers06.html

[_ajax18]

Ray have you gotten any information on the idea of a universal resurrection? I know people don't want to go back to their bodies, but what conclusion have you come to?

[_Mary]

Individuals such as pilots and astronauts engaged in centrifuge training have reported similar experiences while passed out from too many G's.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers06.html

The Dutch study was interesting Vegas. There are certainly some elements pertaining to people that have 'died', that are difficult to explain. Seeing a piece of equipment fall, recalling a conversation, when they were to all intents and purposes dead. (no brain activity).
I can't explain it.

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/ol ... 12768.html

Here's the study, reproduced in the Lancet

http://www.zarqon.co.uk/Lancet.pdf
and


http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:6L ... cd=3&gl=uk

Html version


Mary