Ezias wrote:Ah, but the beauty of psychedelic substances is that they CAN and ARE being used in labratories.
Not in the way I described, which was my point. I thought we were talking about grasping 'a reality that is always there but beyond our normal physical senses'. What is this reality? In what way is it different to the 'reality' which is within our normal physical senses? How do we know of this 'reality'? Is it the real reality?
There are links in that wikipedia article that refer to some, such as the John Hopkins Research Project.
That is not what I was talking about. That's certainly not 'abandoning the laboratory', for a start. It's a study of human consciousness.
Unlike completely random mystical experiences, such as NDE's...
NDEs are not 'completely random mystical experiences'. The very fact that they follow what appears to be practically a standard script, right across cultures, prove otherwise.
Scientific research in this area is still in it's infancy, mostly because of the taboo associated with such substances.
Where's a smiley which expresses laughing uncontrollably on having read a statement which is dramatically and obviously untrue? Sorry, but what taboo? That's like scientists have problems studying radiation because of the taboo regarding uranium.
As far as what you say about gravity, yes, that is an invisable force, but it can be sensed with our normal consciousness.
If you mean we can sense our weight, you're correct. But no, we cannot tangibly assess gravity, or even detect it as a force. We can only detect its presence and force indirectly, by observation of its effect on other entities. But ok, let's take quantum physics, since you brought it up. What's the best way to find out what's at the quantum level, smash particles together in an accelerator, or take some LSD?
There are many ideas about the structure of the universe in quantum physics that are very similar to what some have "realized" during drug trips.
Really? Do give us a list. A list of quantum physics experts who recognise that drug trips are a much faster way of getting to the truth of quantum physics than the dumb boring old way of using maths, science, and physical observation of our universe, would also be useful. I'm sure that they'd be very happy if they could bypass three years of painstaking and expensive research with a few hours a week flying high as a kite.
Perhaps, in an altered mental state, the mind has an ability to sense and percieve what science is just starting to scratch the surface of.
Perhaps. I'll believe it when I see it. What I see so far is people taking drugs and altering both their perceptions and their state of consciousness. They're not discovering any new data sources, they're simply rearranging the way their brains receive and interpret that data.
As far as inventing the telescope is concerened, that is an entirely different science.
No it's not. You see, the telescope actually enhances our natural physical senses, so that we can detect the reality which is beyond them (that's not a tiny light in the sky, that's a huge great planet made of rock). The microscope enhances our physical senses, so that we can detect the reality which is beyond them (that spoon isn't clean, it's covered in bacteria). Both telescopes and microscopes have proven themselves extraordinarily useful in this way. Which pill can you give me which provides me with anything comparable? If I take LSD, can I see what's on Pluto? Will I have x-ray vision? Will I be even remotely coherent?
It has it's place in science. The study of consciousness has it's place in science as well.
It seems you're changing the goal posts. I thought we were talking about studying a 'reality always there but beyond our normal physical senses'. The study of consciousness is an entirely different topic.