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Miracles as fundamental???

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:21 am
by _Roger Morrison
Spong addresses that question below:

Are miracles understood as supernatural interventions necessary to the Christ story? I clearly do not think so. Paul apparently did not think so. The world we live in today does not operate on the basis of miracles. Ours is an ordered world, not a chaotic world. There is, however, a force that is driving this world toward life, wholeness and, dare I say, toward God? God is the love that heals, that expands, that binds up our wounds, that sets us free to be. This is the God we meet in Jesus. That is why the disciples of Jesus who composed the first gospels claimed for him the role of messiah and then added to his life story healings, that were first introduced in the Elisha cycle and then later portrayed as the signs that Isaiah said would mark the inbreaking of the Kingdom of God. We misread them as literal events, rather than what they are, interpretive signs.

Do miracles happen today? Do prayers get answered by an intervening deity in miraculous ways? Something deep in us yearns to believe that, but such ideas have lost their credibility in our world. What has not lost credibility is that the God, who is the source of all our life, infuses life with the power to transcend our limits. The God who is the Source of love expands our capacity to love and thus to become more human, more loving, more whole. God who is the ground of being gives us the courage to be all that we can be. This is the God that people claimed they saw in Jesus. When we experience this God we do see, we do hear, our lameness gives way to wholeness and our tongues are loosed to speak of truth far beyond its normal limits. Others might call this a miracle. I call it entering the experience of God, which is the same thing as entering the fullness of your humanity.


Could that "God" be 'Enlightened Science' unfettered by intelligence to pursue and embrace new truths about the Universe and those who inhabit it? Certainly such "miracles"--and more--are common place today.

Might that be, "...the fullness of...humanity," to respect the past but not live in it?? To get ones self into the flow of intelligence rather into currents of materialism and superstition?? Mammon disguised as "God"?? Warm regards, Roger

but what's wrong

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:22 am
by _paulhadik
Roger:

but what is the point of eliminating miracles??? well, obviously then you have to wrestle with the idea that Christ was God come to earth, and why? to save men from sin (spongian klaxons ringing!!!!!)
this is the crux isn't it? Get past it all it has nothing to do with miracles but with the nature of man. Get rid of the need for a savior, so get rid of the proof of Emmanuel and then heck, we ain't so bad after all are we?

weren't we doing this post somewhere else?

Re: Miracles as fundamental???

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:46 am
by _Canucklehead
Are miracles understood as supernatural interventions necessary to the Christ story? I clearly do not think so. Paul apparently did not think so. The world we live in today does not operate on the basis of miracles. Ours is an ordered world, not a chaotic world. There is, however, a force that is driving this world toward life, wholeness and, dare I say, toward God? God is the love that heals, that expands, that binds up our wounds, that sets us free to be. This is the God we meet in Jesus. That is why the disciples of Jesus who composed the first gospels claimed for him the role of messiah and then added to his life story healings, that were first introduced in the Elisha cycle and then later portrayed as the signs that Isaiah said would mark the inbreaking of the Kingdom of God. We misread them as literal events, rather than what they are, interpretive signs.

Do miracles happen today? Do prayers get answered by an intervening deity in miraculous ways? Something deep in us yearns to believe that, but such ideas have lost their credibility in our world. What has not lost credibility is that the God, who is the source of all our life, infuses life with the power to transcend our limits. The God who is the Source of love expands our capacity to love and thus to become more human, more loving, more whole. God who is the ground of being gives us the courage to be all that we can be. This is the God that people claimed they saw in Jesus. When we experience this God we do see, we do hear, our lameness gives way to wholeness and our tongues are loosed to speak of truth far beyond its normal limits. Others might call this a miracle. I call it entering the experience of God, which is the same thing as entering the fullness of your humanity.


I don't really have much to add to the discussion at the moment, other than to say that I question whether or not humanity is actually being driven towards "life and wholeness" (whatever that means). Science certainly has made amazing and almost inconceivable progress over the past few centuries, yet I question if modernity has made humanity any more just or more "whole".