Scripture study.

[_JonasS]

Having been around this board for a while, I have noticed that the majority of the discussions are negative and in attempt to pull down the church. I feel that it should not matter if there is proof, but rather the impact something has on ones life. It got me thinking and realised that one thing missing from this board is discussion on scripture study for the LDS. In Sunday School we have ample opportunity to discuss what we are covering in the scriptures, purely positive discussion with little criticism (except when unsure). However, this is something that only lasts an hour one day a week and not all of us have families in which we can discuss and so I feel it would be nice to start something like that. What is even better is that the lessons are pretty much the same all over the world and so we could actually discuss the following Sundays lessons.

In Sunday School we are studying the Book of Mormon and are currently on Mosiah. We have been asked to Read Mosiah 18-24 (Lesson 19 in Book of Mormon class member study guide)

I suggest we start here and discuss these chapters as we would in Sunday School class.

For those that don't have the Study Guide I shall write the questions and bits & bobs.

"None Could Deliver Them but the Lord".
Mosiah 18-24

18, Explanation of Baptimal covenant.

"A covenant is an agreement between at least two parties. In the case of the gospel covenants, the parties are the Lord in heaven and the [wo/]men on Earth. [Wo/]Men agree to keep the commandments and the Lord promises to reward them accordingly." -- Joseph F. Smith (In conference Report, Oct. 1970, 91; or Improvement Era, Dec. 1970, 26).

[My addition in square brackets just for my own benefit].


What do we covenant to do when we are Baptized? (Mosiah 18:8-13; Moroni 6:2-3; D&C 20:37)
What does the Lord promise to do when we are Baptized and keep our Baptismal covenant? (Mosiah 18:10, 12-13; 2nd Nephi 31:17)

Why did the Lord bless Alma's people while they were in bondage more quickly and abundantly than He blessed Limhi's people? (Compare Mosiah 21:5-15 with Mosiah 23:26-27; 24:10-16)
How does this apply to our lives?

Why are our burdens easier to bear when we "submit cheerfully and with patience to all the will of the Lord"? (Mosiah 24:15)
In what ways has the Lord strengthened you to help you "bear up [your] burdens with ease"?

What can we learn from Limhi's people and Alma's people about recieving deliverance from the bondage of sin? (Mosiah 7:33; 21:14; 23:23; 29:18-20; D&C 84:49-51)

Suggestions for discussion.

Discuss questions, invite those baptised to share memories of their baptism.

For those that don't have scriptures;

http://scriptures.LDS.org/

I invite all to read the scriptures above and discuss the lesson as they would in Family or Sunday School study. If people choose not to join in then I shall discuss with myself.

Thanks,


Joseph Smith.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Jonas... welcome to the board!

I'm guessing you realize that most folks here do not believe in the truth claims of the LDS church?

However, if I were a part of this discussion I would ask, how can one know the will of God?

Is it appropriate to obey church leaders if your personal inspiration conflicts with what leaders believe is God's will? How does one account for differences in personal revelation?

Should one live in accord with what others tell you is the will of God or what one personally believes/feels is the will of God?

Since people the world over believe they are following the will of God, how can anyone be sure? (Think guys flying airplanes into buildings for example).

:-)


~dancer~

[_Gazelam]

When we are baptised we take upon ourselves the name of Christ and set ourselves apart from the rest of the world in the eyes of God. This is our saying that we have faith in God and know that he is there, and we are willing to excercise our faith to bring about a change in our lives and improve our character.

Setting ourselves apart does not mean that all of lifes struggles cease. But it does mean that we will be judged after a higher standard in regards to how we deal with these challenges. God will lend us comfort and wisdom by way of the Holy Ghost and assist us in these struggles as long as we keep our covenants, and in the process we will grow and improve to the point that we gain the mind and will of the Lord.

Mortality was intended to be a time of trial and struggle. It is in the fiery furnace of affliction (Mal 3:2-3) that we often find the needed motivation to seek out God. The covenants we make with God don't shelter us from the trials, in fact the covenant we make to "Be in the world but not of the world" entails that we will "suffer for well doing" (1 Pet. 3:12-17). Since the saints have enter into a covenant that holds them to a higher standard, and thereby a greater burden, God endows them with power from on high.

Alma 36:3

......whosoever shall put their trust in God shall be supported in their trials, and their troubles, and their afflictions, and shall be lifted up at the last day.

[_harmony]

The problem is, there's no way to measure if God is keeping his end of the bargain. Is the blessing because of keeping the covenant or because of chance?

[_Coggins7]

The problem is, there's no way to measure if God is keeping his end of the bargain. Is the blessing because of keeping the covenant or because of chance?

Well, that's a question that you might ask if your were Richard Dawkins, but not if you were faithful member Harmony.

Is it not?

[_John Larsen]

What do we covenant to do when we are Baptized? (Mosiah 18:8-13; Moroni 6:2-3; D&C 20:37)
I was baptized when I was 8 years old. There is no court in the world that would hold some to commitments made in their infancy. There is no way you can suggest that the little children baptized can understand what they are promising or what they are getting into.

What does the Lord promise to do when we are Baptized and keep our Baptismal covenant? (Mosiah 18:10, 12-13; 2nd Nephi 31:17)
We speak of a baptismal covenant, but this is all just games of vague terminology in which one is writing a blank check of future action on the part of the entering party, with no promise of return on the party dispensing the covenant.


Why did the Lord bless Alma's people while they were in bondage more quickly and abundantly than He blessed Limhi's people? (Compare Mosiah 21:5-15 with Mosiah 23:26-27; 24:10-16)
How does this apply to our lives?
The Book of Mormon is a piece of fiction.


Why are our burdens easier to bear when we "submit cheerfully and with patience to all the will of the Lord"? (Mosiah 24:15)
And what if they are not? Let me ask the same question. Why are our burdens sometimes not easy to bear when we submit? I suppose both will have the same answer for the believer thus establishing nothing.

In what ways has the Lord strengthened you to help you "bear up [your] burdens with ease"?
He hasn't. I am not suggesting that I have had undo burdens, but when my burdens have been lightened it has been through human action--and those people deserve the credit. Neither Tinkerbell or God has provided me any assistance with my burdens.

What can we learn from Limhi's people and Alma's people about recieving deliverance from the bondage of sin? (Mosiah 7:33; 21:14; 23:23; 29:18-20; D&C 84:49-51)
See above.

[_harmony]

The problem is, there's no way to measure if God is keeping his end of the bargain. Is the blessing because of keeping the covenant or because of chance?

Well, that's a question that you might ask if your were Richard Dawkins, but not if you were faithful member Harmony.

Is it not?

The sun shines on the sinner and faithful alike, Loran. Blessings flow whether the person is a sinner or faithful. How can any specific blessing be tied to a specific covenant?

[_Inconceivable]

Having been around this board for a while, I have noticed that the majority of the discussions are negative and in attempt to pull down the church. I feel that it should not matter if there is proof, but rather the impact something has on ones life.

Fact of the matter, Jonas, is that I asked to be released from teaching SS about 2 1/2 years ago. I had looked ahead at the next six lessons I was required to teach. They dealt with the so called expulsion from Nauvoo to the mess at winter quarters. I could not not lie so I could not teach what was in the lesson books.

Most of my life I focussed on the possitive impact the Mormon church had on my life (and those around me). I had no idea untill just these past few years when I realized how debilitating it had been to me.

But yes, it's not all bad, but the impact is what it is. And those six lessons were bald faced lies.

but, carry on.

[_JonasS]

...... And those six lessons were bald faced lies.

.........

Would you like to expand?

[_Inconceivable]

Not particularly worth reading (because it is fiction),

but here is the story of wicked white Nephite priest Amulon and his buds. Because of their cowardice, they abandon their wive(s) and children when the Lamanites (the blacks) lay seige on their city. Later, they abduct and rape 24 Lamanite (black) women (and they justify the act of violence by marrying them??). The Lamanites accuse the Nephites of stealing their daughters and then many die on both sides.

Later, Amulon's gang (that started the war) are found by the blacks. Instead of slaughtering whitey, the blacks give him authority over the entire people of Limhi (the whites) - to live with their black so called brides and mixed children among the Nephites (that happen to include their former white Nephite wives that they abandoned.

What is freaking wrong with this picture??

What would you do to your enemy if he were a married deadbeat dad that abandoned his family, raped your daughter and started a terrible war that costs the lives of your other children? Make him a ruler over your enemy or kill the b******ard? And did I mention race?

Here:

3 And now the priests of king Noah, being ashamed to return to the city of Nephi, yea, and also fearing that the people would slay them, therefore they durst not return to their wives and their children.
4 And having tarried in the wilderness, and having discovered the daughters of the Lamanites, they laid and watched them;
5 And when there were but few of them gathered together to dance, they came forth out of their secret places and took them and carried them into the wilderness; yea, twenty and four of the daughters of the Lamanites they carried into the wilderness.
6 And it came to pass that when the Lamanites found that their daughters had been missing, they were angry with the people of Limhi, for they thought it was the people of Limhi.

[i](Book of Mormon | Mosiah 20:3 - 6)

23 And now Limhi told the king all the things concerning his father, and the priests that had fled into the wilderness, and attributed the carrying away of their daughters to them.

(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 20:23)[/i]

33 And it came to pass that Amulon did plead with the Lamanites; and he also sent forth their wives, who were the daughters of the Lamanites, to plead with their brethren, that they should not destroy their husbands.
34 And the Lamanites had compassion on Amulon and his brethren, and did not destroy them, because of their wives.

(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 23:33 - 34)

39 And the king of the Lamanites had granted unto Amulon that he should be a king and a ruler over his people, who were in the land of Helam; nevertheless he should have no power to do anything contrary to the will of the king of the Lamanites.

(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 23:39)