DiscussMormonism.com

threatened Joseph Smith about Polygamy and what would happen to him if he didn't practice it.

Why didn't this angel visit another prophet and warn him what would happen when Hitler came to power?

Mahonri wrote:threatened Joseph Smith about Polygamy and what would happen to him if he didn't practice it.

No, Joseph Smith made this story up to cover his, um, I mean to excuse his affair. ;-)

Seriously what sort of God tells men to have affairs and cheat on their wives? Many religious/cult leaders claim God wants/allows/commands them to "have" lots of women, Joseph Smith was just like all the others. :-(

~dancer~

I believe in the Church, but don’t angels with swords threatening the life of the prophet, if they don’t do what God wants, cancel out Free Agency?

haleray wrote:I believe in the Church, but don’t angels with swords threatening the life of the prophet, if they don’t do what God wants, cancel out Free Agency?

Or at least our sense of credulity.

haleray wrote:I believe in the Church, but don’t angels with swords threatening the life of the prophet, if they don’t do what God wants, cancel out Free Agency?

What is the church that you believe in? Smith is the church.

For those of you new to the board, here are my 2 cents again:

1) Yes, forcing man to perform a righteous act is Satan's plan according to Mormonism. Smith swears that God gave him no choice if he wished to live.

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 121:41 - 42)

2) If I were given that ultimatum, I would have put up a fight. I would prefer to die trying than to betray the sacred covenants I made to my wife and children.

12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
13 And he fastened on his head–plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land—
(Book of Mormon | Alma 46:12 - 13)

3) If he had made an attempt at my wife or my daughter I would have considered taking him out myself. The requests he made were acts of violence that attacked the virtue of the innocent.

35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.

(Book of Mormon | Jacob 2:35)

4) I will not follow that man (Smith and His God). Yes, that man. He was a coward and a liar.

5) You can count on me to have done what William and Wilson Law did (publishing the Nauvoo Expositor). I would have sought to bring such a morally bankrupt human to justice - to protect my wife, my children, my friends and my community.

13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 123:13)

5) In the end, Smith was ripe with iniquity and created his own fate.

He was a man condemned by his own writing and by his own works.

inc.

haleray wrote:I believe in the Church, but don’t angels with swords threatening the life of the prophet, if they don’t do what God wants, cancel out Free Agency?

Nope. Laying out consequences doesn't violate Agency at all. Otherwise Old Testament prophets in particular spent a lot of time cancelling agency.

Inconceivable wrote:

haleray wrote:I believe in the Church, but don’t angels with swords threatening the life of the prophet, if they don’t do what God wants, cancel out Free Agency?

What is the church that you believe in? Smith is the church.

For those of you new to the board, here are my 2 cents again:

1) Yes, forcing man to perform a righteous act is Satan's plan according to Mormonism. Smith swears that God gave him no choice if he wished to live.
2) ....

For those who believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, might his involvement in polygamy be evidence that he failed the test administered by the angel?

The Nehor wrote:

haleray wrote:I believe in the Church, but don’t angels with swords threatening the life of the prophet, if they don’t do what God wants, cancel out Free Agency?

Nope. Laying out consequences doesn't violate Agency at all. Otherwise Old Testament prophets in particular spent a lot of time cancelling agency.

Nehor,

It's unfortunate that in order to justify modern antisocial behavior we must cite precedents contained in a book of dubious authenticity like the Old Testament.

Regardless, the Book of Mormon is full of references declaring secret signs and oaths abominable. Demanding performance of an illegal act, non-compliance of which is death, is a tool of the adversary. Period.

It's also illegal to break someone's legs for not stealing a horse - regardless of whom the stolen horse benefits.

In so many words, Smith said he was commanded by God not to render unto Ceasar what was Ceasars -to reject the law of the land (whether it was just or unjust).

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

JOSEPH SMITH.

(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith 1:11 - 13)

11) According to Smith, God did not permit Smith to act upon his own conscience.

12) Belief in obeying infers that the laws will be obeyed - even in secret.

13) The practice of Mormon adultery redefined many of these pure words into definitions against their true nature.

The marriage laws of that time were wholesome and just - many believe inspired by The Great Lawgiver. They consititute the very framework of civilized culture.

Asking a righteous man to severe a sacred vow to his righteous spouse will always carry a much greater consequence than death.

The Nehor wrote:

haleray wrote:I believe in the Church, but don’t angels with swords threatening the life of the prophet, if they don’t do what God wants, cancel out Free Agency?

Nope. Laying out consequences doesn't violate Agency at all. Otherwise Old Testament prophets in particular spent a lot of time cancelling agency.

This is interesting. Smith's experience (according to him), strictly interpreted, is not a denial of agency. He could very well have chosen to disobey and lose his life. Nehor is right, it was just a statement of consequence. Which is why I think malkie's post is very insightful/interesting:

For those who believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, might his involvement in polygamy be evidence that he failed the test administered by the angel?

If an angel did indeed threaten J.S.'s life, there are two possible reasons, as I see it: the first one would be a test that he failed, as malkie has suggested. The second would be that plural marriage was so important as an institution, that it absolutely MUST be [re?]instated. If Joseph wouldn't do it, he must be removed so that someone else [his replacement?] could. That makes polygamy of utmost importance, so it seems. If this is so, why has the modern LDS church so vehemently distanced itself from it? Why did Pres. Hinckley tell Larry King (and all viewers) that it is "behind us"? Not "we're in a holding pattern", or "it's not expedient for us to practice it at the moment", or "all things according to God's will and pleasure", etc, etc. I can buy the explanation given in Official Declaration 1 --the U.S. government had the church between a rock and a hard place -- but not the stance that has been taken since, both quasi-officially and certainly by the average church member: that of placing as much distance between the church and polygamy as they possibly can.

Can you supply a source for this supposed experience of Joseph Smith? I have to see statements in their context- otherwise I won't make a judgement call.

In any case, The Nehor is right (how ironic).

"4) I will not follow that man (Smith and His God). Yes, that man. He was a coward and a liar."

And yet you seem to fully believe The Book of Mormon, which was translated through Joseph Smith. Excuse me if I find that inconsistent.