Obeying Church Leaders as a pervasive theme

[_moksha]

Many Church presentations, lessons and even internet dialog among LDS people center,
in some way, upon the theme of "Do what you are told by Church leaders".

Why is that?


.

[_zzyzx]

Because without obeying what you are told to do by Church leaders means that inspired enterprises like a Anti-banking safety society could possibly fail. Or the Temple in Jackson County, Missouri could be put on hold for some reason rather than built as commanded. Or that you could teach a lesson using the Statements of The Prophets from the pulpit in Conference only to find out the Statements of The Prophets from the pulpit in Conference aren't really Doctrine or Truth, like many of Brighams statements.

This is the most perverse teaching in The Church. It is the excuse used by Nazi/German soldiers and citizens to justify their actions and complicity in murdering their neighbors. It is taken to extremes by many LDS who believe in pure BS statements like 'follow your leaders even when you know it is wrong and you will be blessed for it'. This type of thinking produces Mountain Meadows Massacres, lying for political gain and cheating anyone and everyone 'for the Lord'.

The idea of a thinking membership has been thrown in the trash these days.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Many Church presentations, lessons and even internet dialog among LDS people center,
in some way, upon the theme of "Do what you are told by Church leaders".

Why is that?


.

One word: CULT.

If they were allowed to think on their own, OUTSIDE of well defined narrow boundaries, they would not remain and therefore would adversely effect the financial future of LDS Inc.

I am sure a gaggle of defenders will follow on with BS about how they think on their own... and they do, but only within allowed and very narrow guides.

[_Joseph Antley]

Because us Mormons believe that the leaders of the Church are appointed and inspired by God. It's not a difficult concept.

[_zzyzx]

President Marion G. Romney tells of this incident, which happened to him: I remember years ago when I was a Bishop I had President [Heber J.] Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home….Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: “My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it.” Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, “But you don’t need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray.” [In Conference Report, October 1), p. 78]

Brigham and Joseph both taught the members should listen to leadership and then find out for themselves if they believed what was taught.

Obeying without knowledge or research is stupid and is used by many who would force others to do their will. It is never the right thing.


“Do not, brethren, put your trust in man though he be a bishop, an apostle, or a president. If you do, they will fail you at some time or place; they will do wrong or seem to, and your support be gone . . .” (Apostle George Q. Cannon, Millennial Star 53: 658-59)

“What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually.” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 9: 149)

“We talk of obedience, but do we require any man or woman to ignorantly obey the counsels that are given? Do the First Presidency require it? No, never.” (Joseph F. Smith, Journal of Discources 16: 248)

And none are required to tamely and blindly submit to a man because he has a portion of the priesthood. We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark, that they would do anything they were told to do by those who presided over them, if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God… would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without asking any questions. When Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their minds to do wrong themselves.” (Apostle Samuel Richards, Millennial Star 14: 593-595)

“President Wilford Woodruff is a man of wisdom and experience, and we respect him, but we do not believe his personal views or utterances are revelations from God; and when ‘Thus saith the Lord’, comes from him, the saints investigate it: they do not shut their eyes and take it down like a pill.” (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, Millennial Star 54: 191)

[_SoHo]

When my wife and I were still active, she was actually the Relief Society. Part of our ward comprised a particularly dangerous area - with projects that had entrances within a square city block (i.e., you entered the complex and actual entrances were hidden from the streets. Those who lived in those complexes often expressed discomfort with the lack of security, and reported instances backed up their fears.

My wife, wisely in my view, suggested that visiting teaching with sisters from the area be held in the chapel - unless sisters wanted to visit in pairs during daylight hours (not always possible if the visitee worked) - and that such visits would count towards the stats.

The bishop, a young transplant, earnest yet inexperienced, was aghast at this change to proper protocol and attempted to override my wife's suggestion. To her credit, she didn't back down - stating that VT simply wouldn't get done then. I attended bishopric meetings at that time when the issue was raised, and was absolutely dumbfounded by how incredulous the bishop was at the seemingly sensible steps taken by my wife. "How dare she ignore my counsel!" Same guy used to constantly remind us all that he was a "judge in Israel" - drove me nuts.

[_moksha]

Because us Mormons believe that the leaders of the Church are appointed and inspired by God. It's not a difficult concept.

How and when did the idea that all Church leaders are appointed and inspired by God come into existance? I know of the visionary experience of Joseph Smith, but I do not know the details of the claim that all other leaders being appointed and inspired by God.

[_Jason Bourne]

Because us Mormons believe that the leaders of the Church are appointed and inspired by God. It's not a difficult concept.

And the Jihadist thinks that too. So? And this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Our_R ... ess_Church

and his followers think that too. So?

And So does Warren Jeffs and his followers too. So?

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Because us Mormons believe that the leaders of the Church are appointed and inspired by God. It's not a difficult concept.

How and when did the idea that all Church leaders are appointed and inspired by God come into existance? I know of the visionary experience of Joseph Smith, but I do not know the details of the claim that all other leaders being appointed and inspired by God.

I believe it is assumed.

Once you are convinced that Joe was divine, then everyone who follows him is assumed to be the same.

That is why accepting Joe as the "restoration prophet" is key to missionary efforts. That unlocks a persons mind, heart, and most importantly their wallet.

[_harmony]

Because us Mormons believe that the leaders of the Church are appointed and inspired by God. It's not a difficult concept.

This is absolutely and manifestly false. Or at least, I hope it is false. Because if it is true, we're all doomed (except Jason and I, who think it's false).