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Okay, I couldn’t sleep. I have something on my mind. Let me just point out right now that I’m posting this in the Celestial Forum. . . so no haters! If the subject (about LDS women and birth control) is compelling enough to carry into the Terrestial Forum, then feel free to do so but without my personal subject matter attached.

I just found out that a person I love very, very much is pregnant with her 4th child. She is “Chapel Mormon” to the core, and doesn’t believe in birth control because of it impeding “God’s will”. Now outside of her Mormon brainwashing, she is one of the brightest and most logically-minded persons I know! Even to the extent that she is accepting of a critics position as valid points. . . but the buck stops there. . . it’s amazing how faith is so blinding a mistress! Anyway, probably due to articles like THIS ONE HERE that advocate birth control as tool of Satan.

"It is of great concern to all who understand this glorious concept that Satan and his cohorts are using scientific arguments and nefarious propaganda to lure women away from their primary responsibilities as wives, mothers, and homemakers. We hear so much about emancipation, independence, sexual liberation, birth control, abortion, and other insidious propaganda belittling the role of motherhood, all of which is Satan’s way of destroying woman, the home, and the family—the basic unit of society."-

Instead of being delighted for her, I’m heartbroken. She has struggled with depression in the past and finds it extremely overwhelming with the three children she already has (who could blame her!) Also, she has expressed doubts about her marriage and whether or not the love she and her husband share is the kind of love a relationship needs to healthly survive.

I have 3 children myself, and being married to a active-duty military man, where his job takes him away from home 60+% of the time, I can somewhat sympathize with her feelings. It extremely difficult at times, and I haven’t ever been anywhere near the degree of depression she has suffered from.

How can I reach out to her?

I’m hesitant because I don’t want to be insensitive to her beloved beliefs. I certainly want to be respectful of her boundaries, and I don’t think an unsolicited letter from me would be appreciated, however heartfelt it may be. But inside I’m screaming “Do Something”! Because I think back to my days as a TBM and yeilding to “outside” logic would have saved me from so many regretful life experiences.

Now I’m not saying she will regret her kids, I don’t think healthy-minded mothers regret their kids. For instance, even though I had more than I could handle with 1 kid, and I sometimes think how much easier life would be if I had stopped at one, I couldn’t imagine life without the other 2. However, now that I’m finished having kids, I am glad I’m not having anymore, even though I know for a fact if had I had more, I’d a cherished them just as much.

On top of that, in my own personal experience, my own mother had more of us then she could spread herself mentally and emotionally for. That is the one of the only major grievances I have with her and the way my childhood was. In this case, quality over quantity.

I imagined what I might say to her. I thought of a boat analogy that I could put into Mormon terms (rather than insisting on my rejection of the usage of such terms).

Imagine yourself as a sailboat on the water. Sure it may be fun to spend a few days sailing aimlessly every now and then, going wherever the wind takes ya, but I think Heavenly Father meant for us to take charge of our own boats and be the Captain that steers ourself to our own destination. Heavenly Father as the wind that will take ya there once we set the course. Leaving it up to the wind to guide the boat will leave you nowhere but sailing around the waters in circles, and maybe even tossed upside down on the raging sea.

As for myself, I steered my boat right out of Mormonland, and I like to believe that there is a “God” providing the wind.

So there ya have it. Any good ideas about what I should do? (keep in mind I’m not the “pray and believe” type).

One of the many faces of Mormonism that I find to be very ugly. Such an atrocity to womanhood!

<sigh> Such a toughie. Truly. I have a dear friend who decided to have a 4th based on revelation and there are lots of issues (they are done now). I can relate.

Has she asked for advice or are you just super worried about her and want to convince her that more children may not be in her (and her families) best interest?

I'm not sure unsolicited advice ever goes over well.

The biggest hurdle is the "God will provide" and "you won't get more than you can handle" mentality. The problem being, these are not true. I wish they were true, but they aren't.

I could provide a miriad of examples, but I'm sure you can too.

Hi just me, thanks for your response. No she hasn't asked for my advice. And I wouldn't say my goal is try to convince her not to have anymore kids. I would like to see her realize its okay to decide the number of children to have, without having to worry that she is sinning against God. And if there is a God, I think he/she fully expected for us to make our own choices. The idea that God=baby rather than sex=baby is a reckless approach. I wish she felt that what God loves her so much that he would like for her to put herself first.

It’s clear that your friend has more issues than having more kids than she can handle. No matter how nice, worried, or concern for her well-being, you are, telling her that she should have birth control, for her, it would be like offering her a beer, or a cigarette. All I can suggest is to tell her to talk to her Bishop about her problems, see if he can suggest a LDS therapist. One problem that I see that your friend has, is that she’s so concerned about other people that she forgets to be concerned about herself, she may feel, as some do, that thinking about yourself in any way would be considered being selfish.

The Church's current position on birth control is actually relatively mild...

Husband and wife are encouraged to pray and counsel together as they plan their families. Issues to consider include the physical and mental health of the mother and father and their capacity to provide the basic necessities of life for their children.

It's a shame they don't get the word out.

my wife and I have discussed this a number of times. I look at it like this: It is time for us to focus on the ones we have now. If we have more, it will distract our focus from the current ones. Sure it is fun to look at pictures when they were smaller, but those are just pictures. Let's look at how they are now and enjoy them. The past is behind us. God needs us to focus on our current situation.

Did God intend for us to have one more? I love our current ones enough to have the courage to answer with a firm NO to that question.

We are now ready to move on. 6 more months of diapers and we are home free!!!!!

OK...She is pregnant now, right?

I don't know that I could, in good conscience, suggest an abortion. What's done is done. The only thing you can do regarding her current pregnancy is to be as supportive a friend as you possibly can. Maybe you could volunteer to help babysit her kids so she can catch a nap once in a while, etc.

Now, as far as future pregnancies go....I think that you could possibly show her the reference that Cinepro posted. Also, it is important for her to consult with her doctor. If she is having her fourth child, and her other children are "stair-steps", there are probably some health concerns that need to come into play...particularly if she is clinically depressed and on some type of medication for that depression.

Thanks for the responses. Ya, it does make sense to just be supportive now that she is pregnant. The problem with the "church position" that cinepro is suggesting is that it doesn't comment for all the former statements made that contradict. So it's like the "free agency" teaching when your parents would tell you "yes, you can choose", but consequences will match your choice. We all knew, that we had better make the "right" (the one that matched the parents' will) choice!
I don't think birth control is a right choice, wrong choice sort of issue. The church doesn't make that clear enough. What I would like the church to do is come out with a statement to the members saying "God approves of whatever decision you decide about using birth control or not. And he desires that you make the choice for yourself".
It's the "Chapel Mormons" that are getting screwed here, and they are the ones being laughed at as fools by their fellow bretheren, because in the end if they will be told something like "well you took that too literally", "you were taught wrong", or "you fell asleep in Seminary".

Thanks Liz, I will focus on what I can do to help here. But it's sad when one should have to resort to always needing anothers help, when he/she could have helped themself, by knowing their limits and not handing over their personal power to the church. Some just don't realize that they do this though, so I can't be too harsh with my judgement on these humble people.

Redefined wrote:What I would like the church to do is come out with a statement to the members saying "God approves of whatever decision you decide about using birth control or not. And he desires that you make the choice for yourself".

That is wishful thinking. The Church will never refute prior statements, even if it no longer stands by them. Issues just soften or morph over time.

Redefined wrote:It's the "Chapel Mormons" that are getting screwed here, and they are the ones being laughed at as fools by their fellow bretheren, because in the end if they will be told something like "well you took that too literally", "you were taught wrong", or "you fell asleep in Seminary".

Agreed. And it is those same Chapel Mormons that become the most bitter Ex-Mormons when they study Church history and learn the truth. They get told by people at MAD that "everybody knows this...it's your fault you weren't more diligent."

Redifined, the article you linked to...you said it described birth control as a tool of satan. I seached for that and could not find it. Are you sure?

I'm a chapel Mormon (I'm in the chapel every sunday) and I can tell you I've never heard it described that way either.

I've not seen people at church discuss birth control, I've certainly never heard anyone counsel against it. What I have heard is an encouragement to have children, but that it is a personal matter and decisions for how many children to bear should be up to the couple.

It's also not uncommon for a young couple to say that they are 'waiting to start a family'. Personally, I never thought they were practicing abstinence in marriage--naturally I assumed they were using birth control--since there is no church prohibition against it.

If your friend chooses to have a large family, isn't that her choice? I have friends who have 9, 10, 11 children. I assumed they had that many children because they wanted to--not because they believed they couldn't use birth control.