DiscussMormonism.com

For various reasons, I find the entry from Scott Howe unusually fun and provocative:

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/

After this could you do one with the testimonies of Mark Hoffman, Ted Bundy and famous Mormon criminals?

Bro/Dr. Peterson,

I haven't yet read a traditional five-part "I know" testimony on your site. Is there one of these among them?

Thanks.

Off hand, I'm not sure that there is an entry of precisely that form on the site. I haven't asked for such, but have given contributors almost completely free rein.

Thanks Dr. Peterson. I ask this because I have always been taught that a testimony, in the LDS sense of the word, contains certain specific items. The last talk I remember, in which the elements of an LDS testimony are outlined, was given by Elder Uchtdorf in October 2006 Conference:

"A testimony is very personal and may be a little different for each of us, because everyone is a unique person. However, a testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ will always include these clear and simple truths:

- God lives. He is our loving Father in Heaven, and we are His children.
- Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and the Savior of the world.
- Joseph Smith is the prophet of God through whom the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored in the latter days.
- The Book of Mormon is the word of God.
- President Gordon B. Hinckley, his counselors, and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are the prophets, seers, and revelators in our day." (Dieter F. Uchtdorf, "The Power of a Personal Testimony", Ensign, Nov. 2006, 37–39)

As you said, you have given your contributors almost completely free rein, and there are some very insightful and inspiring statements from them. However, when lifelong members like me hear the word "testify," I think we are usually expecting something that touches on the above five points. I guess I was expecting to see more of that kind of testimony from your contributors when statements such as the above have been given by general authorities in Conference.

Tad,
You don't see the type of expected testimony from these folks because they are smart enough to keep from testifying to stuff they don't believe. I think if you sat down with them and started asking pointed questions and they would actually answer honestly you would find many of them don't believe a lot of the baloney lds-inc teaches.

Joseph - I suspect you're right. I'm going to read more of their testimonies to try to understand these scholars better.

Tad wrote:Thanks Dr. Peterson. I ask this because I have always been taught that a testimony, in the LDS sense of the word, contains certain specific items. The last talk I remember, in which the elements of an LDS testimony are outlined, was given by Elder Uchtdorf in October 2006 Conference:

"A testimony is very personal and may be a little different for each of us, because everyone is a unique person. However, a testimony of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ will always include these clear and simple truths:

- God lives. He is our loving Father in Heaven, and we are His children.
- Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and the Savior of the world.
- Joseph Smith is the prophet of God through whom the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored in the latter days.
- The Book of Mormon is the word of God.
- President Gordon B. Hinckley, his counselors, and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are the prophets, seers, and revelators in our day." (Dieter F. Uchtdorf, "The Power of a Personal Testimony", Ensign, Nov. 2006, 37–39)

As you said, you have given your contributors almost completely free rein, and there are some very insightful and inspiring statements from them. However, when lifelong members like me hear the word "testify," I think we are usually expecting something that touches on the above five points. I guess I was expecting to see more of that kind of testimony from your contributors when statements such as the above have been given by general authorities in Conference.

I think it's necessary to distinguish two different senses of the word testimony.

When I listen to somebody's "testimony" (or bear a "testimony") I'm hearing (or giving) a profession of faith in something. It could be a testimony of prayer, or home teaching, or the Book of Mormon, or the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith, or value of kindness, or the divine appointment of Thomas S. Monson, or the importance of temple marriage, or the restoration of the Church, or any number of other things. There is no single formula for such an utterance, let alone a five-point structure that must be followed.

When I (as a Latter-day Saint) say, however, that I have a "testimony" of the Gospel, I'm referring to my faith that

- God lives. He is our loving Father in Heaven, and we are His children.
- Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and the Savior of the world.
- Joseph Smith is the prophet of God through whom the gospel of Jesus Christ was restored in the latter days.
- The Book of Mormon is the word of God.
- The current president of the Church, his counselors, and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are the prophets, seers, and revelators in our day.

To be a mainstream, faithful Latter-day Saint, one must affirm all five propositions. There is, however, absolutely no requirement that I always declare my belief in all five of those propositions (or, really, in any single one of them) on any specific given occasion. There is nothing wrong in bearing my "testimony" that, say, the Book of Abraham is true, or that Mormonism and science are compatible, or that the Gospel makes me happy.

Then-Elder Uchtdorf was absolutely right in declaring those five concept-clusters to be fundamental to Mormonism. I don't think that he was even talking about what has to be said in every vocal declaration of testimony.

I hope that helps.

(Ah. I just saw your response to Joseph. I doubt, in that light, that anything I've said here will help.)