DiscussMormonism.com

Is Adam Michael?

Joseph Smith says God showed him - NO

From the Joseph Smith Diary 21st January 1836 (original spelling)

'The heavens were opened upon us and I beheld the celestial kingd om of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell,— I saw the transcendant beauty of the gate that enters, through which the heirs of that king dom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire, also the blasing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son,— I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold— I saw father Adam, and Abraham and Michael and my father and mother, my brother Alvin [Smith] that has long since slept,'
(Joseph Smith Papers website)

Joseph saw in a vision that Adam and Michael were indeed, separate and different people.

However, Mormon Scripture says – YES

From the D&C Section 137

' 1The heavens were opened upon us, and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell.
2I saw the transcendent beauty of the gate through which the heirs of that kingdom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire;
3Also the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son.
4I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold.
5I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother; my brother Alvin, that has long since slept;'
(LDS.org online scriptures)

Current Mormon scripture has deleted the reference to Michael and portrays that Joseph only saw Adam and Abraham.

Somebody has to be wrong. Is it:
a. Joseph Smith, Prophet, (in which case what else might he have got wrong?) or
b. Mormon Scripture and Temple Ceremony (in which case what else has been amended to justify current Church doctrine?)


Hmmm…

Well, the disappointing apologetic on this one is that..........the scribe did it.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Doctrine_and_C ... _D%26C_137

just me wrote:Well, the disappointing apologetic on this one is that..........the scribe did it.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Doctrine_and_C ... _D%26C_137

Makes you wonder how many other things we still believe that were actually scribal errors. I bet the King Follett discourse ends up as a scribal error or the Lectures on Faith or?

Believe what you are told at the time.

At the time you are told it, it is correct.

Tomorrow or last week it might not be/have been correct.

and quit looking for real answers - you will always be disappointed.

Since Joseph Smith used a scribe, the critic has no intellectually honest choice but to roll with it.

Maybe Jesus should have told Joseph the best way to use a scribe is to have them read back what they wrote so you can make any necessary corrections.

jon wrote:Is Adam Michael?

Joseph Smith says God showed him - NO

From the Joseph Smith Diary 21st January 1836 (original spelling)

'The heavens were opened upon us and I beheld the celestial kingd om of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell,— I saw the transcendant beauty of the gate that enters, through which the heirs of that king dom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire, also the blasing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son,— I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold— I saw father Adam, and Abraham and Michael and my father and mother, my brother Alvin [Smith] that has long since slept,'
(Joseph Smith Papers website)

Joseph saw in a vision that Adam and Michael were indeed, separate and different people.

However, Mormon Scripture says – YES

From the D&C Section 137

' 1The heavens were opened upon us, and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell.
2I saw the transcendent beauty of the gate through which the heirs of that kingdom will enter, which was like unto circling flames of fire;
3Also the blazing throne of God, whereon was seated the Father and the Son.
4I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with gold.
5I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother; my brother Alvin, that has long since slept;'
(LDS.org online scriptures)

Current Mormon scripture has deleted the reference to Michael and portrays that Joseph only saw Adam and Abraham.

Somebody has to be wrong. Is it:
a. Joseph Smith, Prophet, (in which case what else might he have got wrong?) or
b. Mormon Scripture and Temple Ceremony (in which case what else has been amended to justify current Church doctrine?)


Hmmm…

He could well have seen both Adam and Michael and they were two manifestations of the same being. Adam, as he is now, waiting resurrection and Adam when he was Michael in pre-fall glory. Like he saw Adam and then saw Abraham and then did a double take on Adam seeing the glory of Michael upon him. And since it was a vision and not a board meeting he had to take it as it came and could not rewind it or puzzle about it and look again. Time does not exist there you know. What was his living mother doing there. Was his father still alive at the time too? You see the slippage of time in this, right?

That reminds me of Joseph's embarrassing blunders regarding Elias/Elijah and "Ezias"/Isaiah

Buffalo wrote:That reminds me of Joseph's embarrassing blunders regarding Elias/Elijah and "Ezias"/Isaiah

I think that one is worse....or did the stupid scribes do that, too.

just me wrote:

Buffalo wrote:That reminds me of Joseph's embarrassing blunders regarding Elias/Elijah and "Ezias"/Isaiah

I think that one is worse....or did the stupid scribes do that, too.

The very bad apologetic is that each of them was magically split into two separate people, instead of Greek/Hebrew name versions of the same person.

It's a good thing the New Testament writers didn't refer to Jesus separately as Jesus and Yeshua ben Yosef, otherwise we'd have two messiahs in the church today.