religion based on a lie vs. 1 on what someone belives

[_hatersinmyward]

-1st church-
suppose i was christian
suppose i started a religion based on a lie and i knew it was a lie. this new religion contradicted my own inner beliefs. i knowingly started this church to attain glory and power. i used this position of strength for some selfish endeavors. many people benefited greatly from my religion. there were flaws in this church. i had many followers and i am killed for whatever reason.


-2nd church-
suppose i am christian as well.
i had an idea that i knew, believed and thought was true. my whole view on life changed. i expressed my views and people started following me, never seeking personal glory or misusing the trust people had in me. a few people benefited. i had many followers and i am killed for whatever reason.


for "church 1" i would clearly be going to hell right?

for "church 2" i defy christian beliefs' am i going to hell?

[_bcspace]

for "church 1" i would clearly be going to hell right?

Yep.

for "church 2" i defy christian beliefs' am i going to hell?

Since you don't have or claim to have revelation in this case, probably. It's not enough to have a "good idea". But hell (depending on how you apply D&C 76:84; to all Telestials or just the wicked Telestials), or at least the Telestial Kingdom, is where all nonLDS christians are headed unless they become LDS at some point in this life or the next.

[_just me]

There is no hell so it doesn't matter.

[_hatersinmyward]

Since you don't have or claim to have revelation in this case, probably. It's not enough to have a "good idea". But hell (depending on how you apply D&C 76:84; to all Telestials or just the wicked Telestials), or at least the Telestial Kingdom, is where all nonLDS christians are headed unless they become LDS at some point in this life or the next.

is church 2 not honorable?

[_Quasimodo]

-1st church-
suppose i was christian
suppose i started a religion based on a lie and i knew it was a lie. this new religion contradicted my own inner beliefs. i knowingly started this church to attain glory and power. i used this position of strength for some selfish endeavors. many people benefited greatly from my religion. there were flaws in this church. i had many followers and i am killed for whatever reason.


-2nd church-
suppose i am christian as well.
i had an idea that i knew, believed and thought was true. my whole view on life changed. i expressed my views and people started following me, never seeking personal glory or misusing the trust people had in me. a few people benefited. i had many followers and i am killed for whatever reason.


for "church 1" i would clearly be going to hell right?

for "church 2" i defy christian beliefs' am i going to hell?

Supposition 1: There is no God. In this case neither would go to Hell. As "just me" states, there is no Hell.

Supposition 2: There is a God, but God's decree of free will advocates that we can create any type of religion we want. In this case it seems that the leader of Church 1 (maybe not Church 2) would go to Hell, but then you would have to explain why God would be so duplicitous as to give everyone free will, but punish those that disagree (not really free will, is it?).

Supposition 3: God really doesn't care. Everybody gets off without punishment. If this is the case, then why believe that God exists in the first place?

[_bcspace]

Since you don't have or claim to have revelation in this case, probably. It's not enough to have a "good idea". But hell (depending on how you apply D&C 76:84; to all Telestials or just the wicked Telestials), or at least the Telestial Kingdom, is where all nonLDS christians are headed unless they become LDS at some point in this life or the next.

is church 2 not honorable?

Sure. But being honorable alone is not enough to escape. One must become LDS to at least inherit the Terrestial glory.

Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.
These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
D&C 76:74-75

[_moksha]

Celestial

Bcspace, Droopy, Will, and a cast of millions who have embraced both conservatism and the Gospel.

Terrestrial

Those who inherit the terrestrial kingdom are described as honorable people who, either in this world or in the spirit world, receive the testimony of Jesus but are not valiant in that testimony (see D&C 76:71–79). Among those who inherit the terrestrial kingdom will be people who died without the law, spirits kept in prison, and some members of the Church who were not sufficiently valiant (see D&C 76:72–75, 79).


Telestial

Those who in mortality have known the power of God (true knowledge with empirical verifiability), been made partakers of it, and then later denied the truth and defied God’s power will also be sons of perdition (see D&C 76:31– 32). The inhabitants of the Telestial kingdom will include those who were murderers, liars, sorcerers, adulterers, and whoremongers—in general, the wicked people of the earth (see D&C 76:103; Revelation 22:15).

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:LKZON5EY82gJ:www.elarsen.net/lessons/Degrees_of_Glory_-Chart.doc+D%26C+76:84&hl=en&gl=us&pid=Brian Laundrie&srcid=ADGEESiVpLeUxRs-m14eIVyReatQ3DAFXppmcg3qlQCnuKsflndzXrV_kCg-gY4PazB6OyeKScN2VZ_dg_GOr9JM_aX81JcPElNgyqPBM6LuBUtN46GVHZ1bS2jDCJXhLm_SG4AuwyeV&sig=AHIEtbRU6f9d5xz4GiZc939n_4hmQkiMjg

[_Quasimodo]

Sure. But being honorable alone is not enough to escape. One must become LDS to at least inherit the Terrestial glory.

Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.
These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
D&C 76:74-75

On a personal note, where do I end up being a nevermo and having no plans to join the LDS? I hope it's someplace nice with interesting people to talk to.

[_hatersinmyward]

Sure. But being honorable alone is not enough to escape. One must become LDS to at least inherit the Terrestial glory.

Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.
These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.
D&C 76:74-75

On a personal note, where do I end up being a nevermo and having no plans to join the LDS? I hope it's someplace nice with interesting people to talk to.

so 'the random idiot' who just does what they are told goes to the celestial kingdom? it sounds like you have to be a member of the LDS to get anything from outer darkness to celestial.

to me none of this kingdom stuff makes sense.

[_bcspace]

On a personal note, where do I end up being a nevermo and having no plans to join the LDS? I hope it's someplace nice with interesting people to talk to.

The Telestial is a nice place. The rub being that verse about being thrust down to hell. But hell doesn;t last forever for most people and you;ll be so busy meeting your friends that.......

But I wouldn't discount changing your mind in the afterlife by joining the LDS Church and getting the Terrestial glory.

so 'the random idiot' who just does what they are told goes to the celestial kingdom?

The "random idiot" didn't improve on his estate just like the wicked or those who remain with other churches or nonLDS beliefs systems didn't improve on their estates. They all go to the same place, the Telestial.

Celestial

Bcspace, Droopy, Will, and a cast of millions who have embraced both conservatism and the Gospel.

The big difference between the Celestial glory and the Terrestial is being valiant. Being conservative includes many signs of valiance. The left-wing instrinsically has no signs of valiance in the testimony of Jesus but plenty of wickedness (the slavery of socialism, support for the homosexual lifestyle etc.). Political bent is not the only way to show how valiant one is, but it seems to be a big one considering how many Gospel principles are involved.