What's the earliest recorded incident of...

[_jon]

...Joseph talking about God and Jesus being separate and distinct beings?

[_Simon Belmont]

...Joseph talking about God and Jesus being separate and distinct beings?

I have an idea...

Why don't you use Google instead of asking others to do research for you?

Here, let me help you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=First+Vision+Accounts

[_jon]

...Joseph talking about God and Jesus being separate and distinct beings?

I have an idea...

Why don't you use Google instead of asking others to do research for you?

Here, let me help you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=First+Vision+Accounts

Thank you Simon, that was very helpful.

Using that tool (Google, not Simon) I have been able to ascertain that the earliest time Joseph Smith, or any of his associates, identified Christ and God as seperate people is 1838.

That's odd is it not?

Joseph see's God and Christ as separate people in 1820 yet goes on to talk about them, for the next 18 years as being one and the same. Translates the Book of Mormon which refers to God and Christ as one and the same, without saying 'hang on a minute, that can't be right'.
Writes an account about his First Vision experience himself in 1832 and fails to identify them as separate people.
In fact I can find nothing, not an account, not a recorded incident, not a journal entry, not a single written thing that refers to God and Christ as separate beings prior to 1838.

This cannot be correct.

Can someone point me in the direction of something prior to 1838 that clears up this dilemma for me?

[_Themis]

Can someone point me in the direction of something prior to 1838 that clears up this dilemma for me?

I don't think they can because it dose not exist. This is a huge problem for Joseph's claims, and one in which apologists have to go with some weak argument Joseph was just emphasizing certain parts yet did not get to the part of seeing two personages until much later. It doesn't even explain why Joseph never mentioned them as two individuals before in any of his teachings.

[_Simon Belmont]

That's odd is it not?

It is not odd at all.

[_Themis]

That's odd is it not?

It is not odd at all.

It's not odd that you as usual have no substance to add.

[_GlennThigpen]

Can someone point me in the direction of something prior to 1838 that clears up this dilemma for me?

I don't think they can because it dose not exist. This is a huge problem for Joseph's claims, and one in which apologists have to go with some weak argument Joseph was just emphasizing certain parts yet did not get to the part of seeing two personages until much later. It doesn't even explain why Joseph never mentioned them as two individuals before in any of his teachings.

You can start with the 1835 account.

Glenn

[_Wiki Wonka]

In fact I can find nothing, not an account, not a recorded incident, not a journal entry, not a single written thing that refers to God and Christ as separate beings prior to 1838.

This cannot be correct.

Can someone point me in the direction of something prior to 1838 that clears up this dilemma for me?

Joseph wrote mentioned two separate personages when he wrote about the First Vision in his journal in 1835. Source text can be viewed here (original spelling has been retained). Like the 1832 account, the 1835 journal entry mentions Joseph being forgiven for his sins:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Primary_sources/Joseph_Smith,_Jr./First_Vision_accounts/1835

...being thus perplexed in mind I retired to the silent grove and bow[e]d down before the Lord, under a realising sense that he had said (if the Bible be true) ask and you shall receive knock and it shall be opened seek and you shall find and again, if any man lack wisdom let him ask of God who giveth to all men libarally and upbradeth not; information was what I most desired at this time, and with a fixed determination to obtain it, I called upon the Lord for the first time, in the place above stated or in other words I made a fruitless attempt to p[r]ay, my toung seemed to be swolen in my mouth, so that I could not utter, I heard a noise behind me like some person walking towards me, I strove again to pray, but could not, the noise of walking seemed to draw nearer, I sprung up on my feet, and and looked around, but saw no person or thing that was calculated to produce the noise of walking, I kneeled again my mouth was opened and my toung liberated, and I called on the Lord in mighty prayer, a pillar of fire appeared above my head, it presently rested down upon me head, and filled me with Joy unspeakable, a personage appeard in the midst of this pillar of flame which was spread all around, and yet nothing consumed, another personage soon appeard like unto the first, he said unto me thy sins are forgiven thee, he testified unto me that Jesus Christ is the Son of God; and I saw many angels in this vision I was about 14 years old when I received this first communication;

If you type "First Vision accounts" on LDS.org, it will bring up these articles:

Joseph Smith’s Recitals of the First Vision

Accounts of the First Vision

If you type "Joseph Smith 1835 account" into Google, you will find many references to it on both critical and pro-Mormon sites.

WW

[_Simon Belmont]

Whelp... someone got pwned.

[_Nightlion]

. Translates the Book of Mormon which refers to God and Christ as one and the same, without saying 'hang on a minute, that can't be right'.

On this point you err. The Book of Mormon does not teach them as one and the same. What you, and all of Mormondom fail to understand is the significance of what saying Christ is the Very Eternal Father actually means.

Start reading about page 15 if you do not want to wade through uncharted waters up to that point.

http://www.fireark.org/wonders_of_eternity.pdf