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I'm curious if anybody can point to sources for Jesus having lived a sinless life. The only verse in the New Testament that uses the word "sinless" in that way is Hebrews 4:15:

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Yet in the next chapter, we find:

Hebrews 5:8-9 wrote:Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

And Jesus himself saying:

Matthew 19:15 wrote:And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God

Granted, this is a very cursory search for verses that mention keywords. I'd like to hear what you have to say about how this belief came about, and what scriptural basis there is for it. Quoting LDS scripture is okay, I suppose, but since this is not uniquely an LDS belief, I'm not sure how much it would help. Bear in mind that I am aware of Old Testament era calls for the sacrifice of an animal without spot or blemish and how that allegedly foreshadows Christ, but I am also aware that Jesus' followers saw him as the fulfillment of such scriptures and therefore, in my mind, such references only bolster the argument that his followers possibly began to retroactively apply such attributes to him.

I'm sure it was applied to him posthumously as he slowly became deified by his followers. There was no need for him initially to be sinless - Jesus thought he was the messiah, and the messiah was never supposed to be a supernatural, perfect being.

According to Mormonism and some sects of Christianity Jesus lived a perfect life and never sinned. If you were to ask those people they'd say Jesus died because he was the son of god and died on the cross because everyone loved him sooo much. They'd also not be able to comprehend why the people in the mobs wanted to see Jesus dead. So they'd say Jesus died on the cross for our sins because he was perfect and that is the only reason he was up there.

Muslims believe Jesus lived a Perfect life as an example for all to follow, nobody hated or despised him. Why would they? he was perfect... They believe He didn't die on the cross, they believe he was risin' up to Heaven.

It seems Many Christians really hold a mixed view of both concepts but don't honestly believe one or the other.

The concept of a sinless Christ is repeated over and over again by modern prophets, recorded in talks and articles on LDS.org.

It is one of the foundation beliefs of Mormonism.

floatingboy wrote:I'm curious if anybody can point to sources for Jesus having lived a sinless life...........

Hebrew 7:26
Romans 8:3-5
1 Peter 2:22
2 Cor 5:21
John 8:46-47




but
aren't you rather missing the point?

subgenius wrote:Hebrew 7:26
Romans 8:3-5
1 Peter 2:22
2 Cor 5:21
John 8:46-47




but
aren't you rather missing the point?

to me, the most compelling ones are from peter and from Jesus himself. we don't know the author of hebrews, and paul never met Jesus, so he's not exactly a reliable witness, so to speak.

it's clear that peter is using isaiah's words about Christ having been sinless:

22 “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”

and Jesus' wording (in john 8) isn't necessarily a claim that he never sinned:

"45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?"

It seems as though the sin he may be referring to would be that of lying to them, of which he assures them he's not guilty.

as for your question... am i missing the point? what do you think it is? i personally don't need for Jesus to have lived a sinless life. i don't think it's feasible, and i don't think it's relevant to him being able to atone for our sins. to me, his contributions aren't lessened by the idea of him being imperfect...so long as he wasn't guilty of anything terrible.

I can handle a Jesus who had to repent and repented perfectly. But I don't think LDS doctrine or scriptures go that way; not even by implication or silence. It would make for an interesting topic if some doctrinal leeway were found. The Hebrews 4 and 5 comparison could be one.

floatingboy wrote:.....to me, the most compelling ones are from peter and from Jesus himself. we don't know the author of hebrews, and paul never met Jesus, so he's not exactly a reliable witness, so to speak.

do you consider the propositions of science that a black hole exists? though no one has ever reliably "witnessed" or "known" one. Do you believe in JC, though you have never met Him? Can any of us reliable prove that "dreams" exist?
Seemingly you may confuse spiritual witness with witness for the prosecution.

it's clear that peter is using isaiah's words about Christ having been sinless:

agreed with that point to an extent. but i think you may be neglecting 2 Cor 5:21

as for your question... am i missing the point? what do you think it is? i personally don't need for Jesus to have lived a sinless life. i don't think it's feasible, and i don't think it's relevant to him being able to atone for our sins. to me, his contributions aren't lessened by the idea of him being imperfect...so long as he wasn't guilty of anything terrible.

one word for you on your notion..."imputation".
I would highly recommend that you study out 2 Cor 5. To claim that JC need not be sinless in order to "atone" for our sins is quite an error or quite a tragic misunderstanding.
To claim that JC need not have been pure and holy certainly contradicts His qualifications for making an atonement. If the Law had a claim on Him, by way of Him sinning, then He would not have been able to volunteer to suffer under its punishment. There is a huge difference between Him taking on punishment for His own guilts and Him taking on punishment for guilts which are not His. JC was perfect, pure, and holy in the sight of Heavenly Father.
We learn that we may be made righteous, because we are not free from sin....but JC had to be made sin, had to be treated as a sinner, because of us, not Him....because He was free from sin and transgression.

subgenius wrote:We learn that we may be made righteous, because we are not free from sin....but JC had to be made sin, had to be treated as a sinner, because of us, not Him....because He was free from sin and transgression.

Didn't He lose His temper once?

subgenius wrote:To claim that JC need not have been pure and holy certainly contradicts His qualifications for making an atonement.

to me, his main qualification for such a miraculous thing is that he is half deity.

subgenius wrote:Seemingly you may confuse spiritual witness with witness for the prosecution.

nope, no confusion. i do mean something more like the courtroom sense of "witness". not that it has to be for the prosecution, though. corinthians is written by paul and timothy, neither of whom met Christ. now, don't read too much of a cynical tone into my questioning of those who never knew Jesus. i can see how easily they would want to believe in someone who lived a sinless life. and yes, i know paul met the other apostles who did meet Jesus, so he could have learned from them what kind of life Jesus led. but i'm more interested in evidence from Jesus himself and from the disciples who knew him that he was indeed sinless. although even with them, it's human nature to look back at someone whom you dearly loved and who really was an outstanding person and want to essentially canonize them. heck, look at what the church does with joseph smith. (not a cue to derail the thread in that direction!)

of course i don't claim to be able to make any definitive statement about this myself, other than that, as i said before, i am ok with a Jesus who made mistakes but was overall a very honorable and praiseworthy person. and that what qualified him for an atonement was what qualified him for overcoming death: his godhood.