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How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:11 am
by _Drifting
The way gays are treated and perceived by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is an “atrocity,” an LDS bishop from Illinois told a group of gay Mormons Sunday.
“If you leave here not remembering what I have to say, remember this: I’m sorry,” Bishop Kevin Kloosterman said at an interfaith service held at the First Baptist Church of Salt Lake City.
Kloosterman spoke at the final event of a weekend-long seminar dedicated to exploring gay Mormon issues, titled Circling the Wagons. He said he recently became aware of LGBT issues and his views changed from that of the church — that acting on gay urges violates its moral code — and had a “mighty change of heart.”
“I began to see the emotional wounds and scars that many of you have today,” Kloosterman said, “and I began to ask, ‘Where did you get these wounds?’ And the answer, unfortunately, was in the house of my friends.
“The straight members of the church have a lot of repenting to do,” he said.
He clarified that he was speaking only on his own behalf and did not intend to represent the views of the church.(Salt Lake Tribune Nov. 6th 2011)
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:47 pm
by _subgenius
why would you propose that he be released? nothing more than another scandal-making-post-where-there-is-none....
posts like that are yet another cliché' attempt at trying to confuse the meanings of condone, tolerance, and love, and the only real confusion, on this topic, is in the mind of the LGBT.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/528 ... n.html.csp
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:45 pm
by _Drifting
Subgenius, this Bishop has taken a publicly expressed stance on homosexuality that is different to that held by the Church.
He has expressed that he is "sorry" about the issues caused by the Church's stance..
He has stated that, again publicly, that "the straight members of the church have a lot of repenting to do".
Do you think the main leadership of the Church will congratulate him for the humanity and love he has displayed or perhaps chastise or discipline him for making the official stance of the Church look bad?
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:18 pm
by _Buffalo
It's like Abinadi standing up to King Noah and his wicked priests. :)
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:24 pm
by _Madison54
There is quite a bit of discussion on some of the other online Mormon forums regarding this. Seems this Bishop is a member of at least one of them (not a real favorable one towards the church but not anti either) and has posted on there for a couple of years (some about his doubts and about his newly acquired knowledge of the true church history).
I have to believe that he will at least be released from his calling (Bishop) for speaking out (and I say, "kudos to him for his courage!"), but I certainly hope the church will not go much further with disciplining him. I do not believe the church needs any more negative publicity on this issue and disciplining this man would do just that.
John Dehlin has posted this Bishop's actual talk on his website and seems upset about all of this fallout. Here's the link:
http://mormonstories.org/?p=2179
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:36 pm
by _LDS truthseeker
I give him 3 months.
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:01 pm
by _bcspace
He didn't seem to say anything that was technically wrong vis a vis the LDS Church. I think he's wrong on the notion that "straight" members need to repent and he seems to have taken these stories, which may have some truth but are often highly embellished with regards to implicating the Church, at face value.
I'd be interested to know his reasoning for flying all the way out to this meeting. If I took that at face value, I'd say he probably is on the high road to apostasy. But I'll hold my peace until there is further light and knowledge.
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:10 pm
by _Madison54
bcspace wrote:I'd be interested to know his reasoning for flying all the way out to this meeting.
I believe that this Bishop and John Dehlin have had an ongoing communication for a while now. This is the same Bishop that already did a podcast with Dehlin (disguising his voice). It is an excellent podcast and I recommend it highly.
This Bishop is an incredible man with a great deal of integrity and courage. He speaks for a lot of active members as well as what you might call "cafeteria Mormons". I hope the higher ups pay attention.....but I tend to believe they will just try to silence him.
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:34 pm
by _Drifting
The Church has painted itself into a corner on this subject and there is no easy PR way out.
1. Continue with the policy of "same sex attraction is a choice and is a sin if acted upon" and they will further alienate themselves and their adherents from society. Meaning smaller numbers of converts, greater numbers of deconverts and ultimately fiscal implosion.
2. Change the policy to fit in line with society (as per polygamy and the Priesthood ban) and be seen to be following rather than leading and by conclusion, not led by God. Meaning smaller number of converts, greater numbers of deconverts and ultimately fiscal implosion.
God has never told the Church to change in advance of society leading the way. God has told His Prophets to dig their feet until its starts to pinch in the purse - then they are to fold quietly and whitewash the history of the whole thing.
Re: How long before this Bishop gets released?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:53 pm
by _subgenius
Drifting wrote:Subgenius, this Bishop has taken a publicly expressed stance on homosexuality that is different to that held by the Church.
He has expressed that he is "sorry" about the issues caused by the Church's stance..
He has stated that, again publicly, that "the straight members of the church have a lot of repenting to do".
Do you think the main leadership of the Church will congratulate him for the humanity and love he has displayed or perhaps chastise or discipline him for making the official stance of the Church look bad?
clearly you are drawing your own conclusions:
“I began to see the emotional wounds and scars that many of you have today,” Kloosterman said, “and I began to ask, ‘Where did you get these wounds?’ And the answer, unfortunately, was in the house of my friends.
“The straight members of the church have a lot of repenting to do,” he said.I did not see anywhere in the article where he specifically faulted the policy of the church, but rather he faulted the actions of some members.
He says straight members should repent...not...that church policy should change. I can easily see where one could see this a call for a deliberate change in how members act upon the policy, and not for a change in the policy itself.
I can not advocate abuse nor harm upon the LGBT, but i can not condone nor support their choice to be LGBT. That being said, people are more than just LGBT or just Mormon and all deserve compassion and fair treatment. But one can not allow tolerance to erode all virtue or tolerance will be without virtue itself.
This issue seems like more of the same cliché' LGBT exaggerations about not getting enough attention.