Was it Nephi or Moroni?

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_contend4faith
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Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _contend4faith »

Was it Nephi or Moroni?

"He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Nephi."
(Pearl of Great Price Joseph Smith History, p. 41)

Here is what the current version says.

He called me by name and said unto me, that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni.
(Pearl of Great Price Joseph Smith History, 1:33)

Who did Joseph see then?
All evidence indicates this change was made after the death of Joseph Smith, and cannot be considered a clerical error. Both the handwritten manuscripts for the History of the Church, and the printed history in the Church newspaper Times and Seasons (of which Joseph Smith was editor) give the visiting personage’s name as "Nephi."

http://www.irr.org/mit/cs-pgp-jshis-p41.html
Our faith does not follow our feelings, our feelings catch up with our faith.
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _Fence Sitter »

And how did Nephi or Moroni appear to Joseph Smith Jr 3 times in the night and not wake up any of the rest of the Smith Family in a small 2 room cabin?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Corpsegrinder
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _Corpsegrinder »

Who did Joseph see then? All evidence indicates this change was made after the death of Joseph Smith, and cannot be considered a clerical error. Both the handwritten manuscripts for the History of the Church, and the printed history in the Church newspaper Times and Seasons (of which Joseph Smith was editor) give the visiting personage’s name as "Nephi."

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m guessing the unspoken subtext to your post must go something like this: If the cult of Mormonism is false, the Evangelical counter-cult must therefore be true. Does that about cover it?
_bcspace
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _bcspace »

There was a single error which was perpetuated in several publications. However, Moroni was the original and there are many publications to that effect prior to the TS article including an antiMormon one.

Q.E.D.
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Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
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_Morley
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _Morley »

bcspace wrote:There was a single error which was perpetuated in several publications. However, Moroni was the original and there are many publications to that effect prior to the TS article including an antiMormon one.

Q.E.D.


From about line 28, here, it looks like Nephi was 'the original.' It's explained as a clerical error.
_Fence Sitter
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _Fence Sitter »

There is also this quote from one of the original 8 witnesses where Nephi shows the plates to his mother on several occasions. Maybe Joseph Smith Jr saw so many angels that he just couldn't keep their names straight. http://www.whitmercollege.com/interviews/95-john-c-whitmer-with-edward-stevenson-and-andrew-jenson-in-richmond-missouri-1888
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_bcspace
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _bcspace »

What are the dates of these publications?
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Morley
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _Morley »

bcspace wrote:What are the dates of these publications?


Links are provided.
_Drifting
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _Drifting »

bcspace wrote:What are the dates of these publications?


ehm, don't you have a saying about someone's theory of laziness?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Madison54
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Re: Was it Nephi or Moroni?

Post by _Madison54 »

On P. 41 of the original Pearl of Great Price, it states that the "Angel Nephi" revealed the gold plates to Joseph Smith. This has now been changed, of course.

The Millennial Star Vol. III, pp. 53 &71....and also the Time and Seasons Vol. III pp. 749 & 753 also state it was "Angel Nephi". In this latter source, Joseph Smith states, "This paper commences my editorial career. I alone stand responsible for it." (page 710) One would think he would have caught such a glaring and important error before it was published.....so if there was an error, it falls on the shoulders of Joseph Smith, in my opinion.

Also in 1853, Lucy Mack Smith stated that the angel's name was Nephi. (Biographical Sketches, p. 79).

All apologists have here is to claim that this was all just a big mistake and that Joseph misspoke, etc. Just seems that he would have at least gotten the name of the angel right....doesn't it?
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