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TBMs often say that they do not claim that their Latter-day prophets are infallible. But I don't believe I've ever heard a TBM cite an example of a Latter-day prophet's fallibility.

So I'm asking the TBMs (only) who admit that their Latter-day prophets are fallible: What is an instance of a Latter-day prophet being wrong? What is an instance of Thomas S. Monson being wrong? What is an instance of Gordon B. Hinckley being wrong?

In view of the statement "The prophet will never lead the church astray," could it be correctly said that Mormons believe that their prophets have limited-in-scope infallibility? That is, that their prophets are infallible in matters of doctrine?

It likely works more like this. Prophets are just men that make mistakes. For example you could point to mistakes Joseph Smith made and where God had to rebuke him. I think the majority of members that aren't very aware of apologetic or other issues with the church feel that prophets are infallible only if they are speaking in the name of the Lord or acting in his name. Mormons that become better read and venture out on the net stumbling upon various issues, history, farms and fair etc. will think of fallibility differently. They will probably determine that if the prophet was wrong or if they don't like what was said it was the man speaking as a man. Where as most TBM's will assume that if there is some type of issue the prophet was still infallible, but they are simply misunderstanding or need to wait for more light and knowledge. Adam God is a perfect example that shows how differently certain types of Mormons will approach fallibility.

Are you asking if any TBM's are aware of instances of a prophet being wrong WHILE ACTING AS A PROPHET, or just instances of them being wrong?

It seems like when evidence is presented of a prophet being wrong then he was not acting as a prophet even if he felt he was.

BY and Adam God comes to mind as an example of that.

Was Joseph Smith Jr acting as a prophet when he gave the King Follett sermon?
When prophets are acting as prophets is what they say to be considered doctrine at that time?
Does God always act like God or does he take mini vacations?

I actually heard a member of the bishopric in my ward say over the pulpit that prophets can be wrong and cited the example of Joseph Fielding Smith when he said man would never reach the moon.

I was TBM at the time but thought it was a bold statement.

Cardinal Biggles wrote:TBMs often say that they do not claim that their Latter-day prophets are infallible. But I don't believe I've ever heard a TBM cite an example of a Latter-day prophet's fallibility.

So I'm asking the TBMs (only) who admit that their Latter-day prophets are fallible: What is an instance of a Latter-day prophet being wrong? What is an instance of Thomas S. Monson being wrong? What is an instance of Gordon B. Hinckley being wrong?

In view of the statement "The prophet will never lead the church astray," could it be correctly said that Mormons believe that their prophets have limited-in-scope infallibility? That is, that their prophets are infallible in matters of doctrine?

arguably, polygamy is an example.
The salamander letters may also be an example.
Pretty sure we can find some "flaws" with Brigham Young.

Now, the scriptures are full of examples where prophets are "wrong" even with specific prophecies, we even see JC get one wrong. All that proves is that the alleged prophecy was mistakenly considered as a prophecy.

Wilford Woodruff said (of BY), "He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy" (Journal of Discourses 13:165)

subgenius wrote:

Cardinal Biggles wrote:TBMs often say that they do not claim that their Latter-day prophets are infallible. But I don't believe I've ever heard a TBM cite an example of a Latter-day prophet's fallibility.

So I'm asking the TBMs (only) who admit that their Latter-day prophets are fallible: What is an instance of a Latter-day prophet being wrong? What is an instance of Thomas S. Monson being wrong? What is an instance of Gordon B. Hinckley being wrong?

In view of the statement "The prophet will never lead the church astray," could it be correctly said that Mormons believe that their prophets have limited-in-scope infallibility? That is, that their prophets are infallible in matters of doctrine?

arguably, polygamy is an example.
The salamander letters may also be an example.
Pretty sure we can find some "flaws" with Brigham Young.

Now, the scriptures are full of examples where prophets are "wrong" even with specific prophecies, we even see JC get one wrong. All that proves is that the alleged prophecy was mistakenly considered as a prophecy.

Wilford Woodruff said (of BY), "He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy" (Journal of Discourses 13:165)

Actually, what that proves is that there is no such thing as authentic prophecy.

subgenius wrote:.... Wilford Woodruff said (of BY), "He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy" (Journal of Discourses 13:165)

I'm a prophet, he's a prophet, she's a prophet, they're a prophet, wouldn't you like to be a prophet, too? Kinda like Dr Pepper, right?

Buffalo wrote:
Actually, what that proves is that there is no such thing as authentic prophecy.

How?
So, by your post's form of logic, if one prophecy does not ring true then regardless of any other successes, prophecy must not exist.
I can most certainly not agree with that position nor can i subscribe to such a fundamentally flawed application of reason and good sense.

Morley wrote:

subgenius wrote:.... Wilford Woodruff said (of BY), "He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy" (Journal of Discourses 13:165)

I'm a prophet, he's a prophet, she's a prophet, they're a prophet, wouldn't you like to be a prophet, too? Kinda like Dr Pepper, right?

seemingly a violation of universal rule #4 (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26) and clearly a violation of good humor.

Dr. Charles Alderton

subgenius wrote:

Buffalo wrote:
Actually, what that proves is that there is no such thing as authentic prophecy.

How?
So, by your post's form of logic, if one prophecy does not ring true then regardless of any other successes, prophecy must not exist.
I can most certainly not agree with that position nor can i subscribe to such a fundamentally flawed application of reason and good sense.

Most prophesies work on the same principle as fortune telling and fortune cookies and horoscopes - be vague enough so that it could apply to almost anything. That's not prophesy. And then when you occasionally do get something specific enough to nail to a wall, it doesn't happen. Once in blue moon you get a prophesy that sort of works out, but chance more than explains such a low success rate. So yes, there is no such thing as authentic prophesy.