Uchtdorf calls Guatemalans children of Lehi.

[_LDS truthseeker]

I suppose Uchtdorf was 'speaking as a man' and not apostle:

He then spoke of traveling to Quetzaltenango and marveled at the natural beauty of this valley surrounded by mountains, lakes and volcanoes. President Uchtdorf also noted the gospel legacy of the people who call this region home. "You are truly children of our wonderful Father Lehi."

http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/6 ... ation.html

[_Buffalo]

This calls for a paternity test.

[_just me]

What would Lehi DNA look like? Huh, huh? Answer me that!

[_LDS truthseeker]

Perhaps Uchtdorf needs to read the introduction to the current Book of Mormon - you know "among' not 'principle' ancestors of the Lamanites thing.

[_Buffalo]

What would Lehi DNA look like? Huh, huh? Answer me that!

I can tell you what it wouldn't look like - ancient Siberian. ;)

[_ldsfaqs]

Several problems with you alls judgments.....

1. Lamanites in the Book of Mormon primarily refers to everyone non-Nephite, not those genetically decended from Laman.

2. Lamanite in the Book of Mormon is essentially the Bibles version of the word "Gentile".

3. Because of the two above, the original Intro didn't actually have to be changed, but it was changed to help eliminate confusion.

4. Lehi's DNA, whatever it is, is near 100% certain to actually be in every single Native American because of what's called "Genetic Drift". A small group inserting itself into a larger population, the DNA wouldn't show because it's not the dominant DNA, but the DNA given the time frame in years would by now be in nearly every native american.

5. Contrary to popular belief, not every native american has been DNA tested. DNA testing of natives of the America's have been very limited, and really can't determine anything but the dominant DNA.

6. As mentioned above, we don't even know what Lehi's DNA looked like. Assumptions can be made, but that's all they are, not scientific fact. But even with those assumptions, the DNA has been found in the America's, thus clearly this is not even close to being a closed case.

7. Those who actually know Mormonism, contrary to the anti-mormons, know that leaders of the Church through divine revelation have identified certain groups as certainly children of Lehi. These groups have been those of the Islands, and some of those in Meso-America. Contrary to popular anti-mormon belief, they have not identified every native american as necessarily from Lehi. However, as explained above, they can be. But, obviously due to the concentration of genes, those in the Islands and Meso-America would more often been identified as such, since that after all is believed where Lehi's party landed. While other natives have been identified to be of Lehi, it has been much less and much less firm of an identification as those in the other areas.

8. Prophecy is being fullfilled in that Central/South America is becoming dominantely Mormon.

If there is anything I've missed or can clarify for you, which debunks anti-mormon strawmen, feel free to ask.

I would also like to point out that the DNA argument didn't do anything to Mormonism.
Science had already long known that Native American's were of Asiatic decent, and thus the argument repacked as DNA had long been refuted. Anti's have created strawmen with both the DNA and Mormonism in order to then attack Mormonism. I met Thomas Murphy not long after he started the ball rolling on his DNA truck, and at that time I wasn't up on the latest anti-mormon claims, and was just starting to get active in Apologetics, but when talking to him and he told me his theory I simply laughed..... Because I had long refuted such claims, DNA didn't make any difference to the matter. It was the same pig with just make-up put on....

[_Drifting]

Ldsfaqs, why did Moroni tell Joseph Smith that Lamanites were the 'literal' ancestors of Native Americans as opposed to what you are saying, that Lamanites are a hotch potch of anyone living in the America's that wasn't a Nephite?

[_Drifting]

Several problems with you alls judgments.....

1. Lamanites in the Book of Mormon primarily refers to everyone non-Nephite, not those genetically decended from Laman.

2. Lamanite in the Book of Mormon is essentially the Bibles version of the word "Gentile".

3. Because of the two above, the original Intro didn't actually have to be changed, but it was changed to help eliminate confusion.

4. Lehi's DNA, whatever it is, is near 100% certain to actually be in every single Native American because of what's called "Genetic Drift". A small group inserting itself into a larger population, the DNA wouldn't show because it's not the dominant DNA, but the DNA given the time frame in years would by now be in nearly every native american.

5. Contrary to popular belief, not every native american has been DNA tested. DNA testing of natives of the America's have been very limited, and really can't determine anything but the dominant DNA.

6. As mentioned above, we don't even know what Lehi's DNA looked like. Assumptions can be made, but that's all they are, not scientific fact. But even with those assumptions, the DNA has been found in the America's, thus clearly this is not even close to being a closed case.

7. Those who actually know Mormonism, contrary to the anti-mormons, know that leaders of the Church through divine revelation have identified certain groups as certainly children of Lehi. These groups have been those of the Islands, and some of those in Meso-America. Contrary to popular anti-mormon belief, they have not identified every native american as necessarily from Lehi. However, as explained above, they can be. But, obviously due to the concentration of genes, those in the Islands and Meso-America would more often been identified as such, since that after all is believed where Lehi's party landed. While other natives have been identified to be of Lehi, it has been much less and much less firm of an identification as those in the other areas.

8. Prophecy is being fullfilled in that Central/South America is becoming dominantely Mormon.

If there is anything I've missed or can clarify for you, which debunks anti-mormon strawmen, feel free to ask.

I would also like to point out that the DNA argument didn't do anything to Mormonism.
Science had already long known that Native American's were of Asiatic decent, and thus the argument repacked as DNA had long been refuted. Anti's have created strawmen with both the DNA and Mormonism in order to then attack Mormonism. I met Thomas Murphy not long after he started the ball rolling on his DNA truck, and at that time I wasn't up on the latest anti-mormon claims, and was just starting to get active in Apologetics, but when talking to him and he told me his theory I simply laughed..... Because I had long refuted such claims, DNA didn't make any difference to the matter. It was the same pig with just make-up put on....

Please quote any material that the Church has officially produced that supports you on any of your eight points. Thanks.

[Guest]

Ldsfaqs, why did Moroni tell Joseph Smith that Lamanites were the 'literal' ancestors of Native Americans as opposed to what you are saying, that Lamanites are a hotch potch of anyone living in the America's that wasn't a Nephite?

1. If you note from my list I'm simply telling you what the Book of Mormon itself teaches.

2. If you also note from my list, I indicated that despite what-ever other claim, due to Genetic Drift Lehi's or "Lamanite" DNA would in fact be in every native american. In other words, every native american WOULD in fact be ancestors of the Lamanites.

3. The biggest thing you are still ignoring is that "Lamanites" whoever they were, would still be ancestors of the Native American's. In other words, if all non-Nephites were called Lamanites as a general term similar to the Bibles "Gentile"..... Then obviously, they would be the ancestors of modern native american's. DNA has nothing to do with the issue.

So, either way, 1, 2, or 3.... The actual facts entirely debunk anti-mormon claims.

[_ldsfaqs]

Please quote any material that the Church has officially produced that supports you on any of your eight points. Thanks.

Why do I need to do that? The Church doesn't deal in scientific, scholarship, or DNA issues.

I'm simply relaying to you what the Book states, what Mormonism is, and what the scholarship actually says on both the Book of Mormon and DNA.

I'm relaying what I know and have learned as it relates to anti-mormon claims and what the Book of Mormon and the Church actually is and has been. False assumptions by anti-mormons, strawmen created that they then tear down is not somehow something that destroys Mormonism.