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In the adult Sunday School lesson yesterday the following points were taught as factually and literally correct.

1. We are at the start of the 7th seal.
2. Each 'seal' represents 1,000 earth years.
3. The seals started with the creation of Adam.
4. The creative periods of the earth are also 1,000 earth years.

Doing the simple math means:

A. Adam was created circa 4,000 bc. (also specified in LDS canon chronology)
B. The earth, being created in 6 periods leading up to Adam is, therefore, 10,000 years old.
C. The entire diversity of human and mammal life was wiped out except for the contents of the ark at between 2,000 and 3,000 bc.

We were also instructed that if science etc produces information that doesn't fit with this then we were to ignore it because Mormonism is right. (I'm paraphrasing but the message was exactly this).

Drifting,

I am interested in discussing this. Right now I am looking for the lesson to which you are referring on LDS.org. my wife usually knows where to find these things. I don't.

This is a bump for now, and "I'll be Bach" after I find the lesson text.

You should learn to stop bearing false witness by your "adding" to the Word taught.
Just because the lesson focused on the "Seals" the periods of the earth, creation, etc., doesn't actually mean the lesson was specifically teaching that the earth is "actually" only 10,000 years old.

Further, we are not instructed to ignore science if there seems to be a conflict and claim Mormonism is right. Mormonism and science does not conflict. We are taught there is no conflict, that sometimes we simply need to know more of the Gospel or of science in order to know the actual truth.

For example, most Mormons tend to understand there is a difference between the scriptural record and the historical record. For example, most educated Mormons tend to believe in what's called "Pre-Adamites" as a possible explanation of the contradictory record. And there is evidences for this theory, so it's not just made up. But, it is a possibility.

Basically, we aren't taught to ignore one side or the other, only to keep learning and that we simply don't know everything yet. Issues such as this however are low in importance.

ldsfaqs wrote:
For example, most Mormons tend to understand there is a difference between the scriptural record and the historical record. For example, most educated Mormons tend to believe in what's called "Pre-Adamites" as a possible explanation of the contradictory record. And there is evidences for this theory, so it's not just made up. But, it is a possibility.

Hmm. If there were "pre-adamites", what would be the point in proclaiming Adam as the first man? Kinda shoots down the book of Genesis altogether, doesn't it?

I'd never heard of "pre-adamites" until I read the apologist forum. Literally, never heard of it before.

No death before the fall means no death before the fall to the believers I know. And, yes, they are educated people.

ldsfaqs wrote: Issues such as this however are low in importance.

I hear this often about a great many specific claims/beliefs, yet these same things also always seem to end up being critical foundational elements of those LDS beliefs that are deemed 'important'.

Drifting wrote:We were also instructed that if science etc produces information that doesn't fit with this then we were to ignore it because Mormonism is right. (I'm paraphrasing but the message was exactly this).

Science should be expanding the boundaries of the Mormon faith rather than the Mormon faith trying to limit human knowledge. You need to get more 21st Century Mormons to participate in those 8th Century lessons.

ldsfaqs wrote:You should learn to stop bearing false witness by your "adding" to the Word taught.
Just because the lesson focused on the "Seals" the periods of the earth, creation, etc., doesn't actually mean the lesson was specifically teaching that the earth is "actually" only 10,000 years old.

Further, we are not instructed to ignore science if there seems to be a conflict and claim Mormonism is right. Mormonism and science does not conflict. We are taught there is no conflict, that sometimes we simply need to know more of the Gospel or of science in order to know the actual truth.

For example, most Mormons tend to understand there is a difference between the scriptural record and the historical record. For example, most educated Mormons tend to believe in what's called "Pre-Adamites" as a possible explanation of the contradictory record. And there is evidences for this theory, so it's not just made up. But, it is a possibility.

Basically, we aren't taught to ignore one side or the other, only to keep learning and that we simply don't know everything yet. Issues such as this however are low in importance.

ldsfaqs, do you dispute any of the math or key dates from the OP?

ldsfaqs wrote:Further, we are not instructed to ignore science if there seems to be a conflict and claim Mormonism is right. Mormonism and science does not conflict. We are taught there is no conflict, that sometimes we simply need to know more of the Gospel or of science in order to know the actual truth.

Mormonism and science are in sharp and irreconcilable conflict. Just because Mormons are taught that there is no conflict does not make it so. Mormons are taught a lot of things that are not true. Many of these teachings have been, and will be, changed when enough people realize how wrong they really are.

The irreconcilable conflicts between science and the basic tenets, doctrines and teachings of Mormonism are described and discussed on this board often. The subject tends to generate long threads because the list of conflicts is extensive. Below are just a few of the threads that have dealt with these conflicts in the last few months:

- ScienceWhopper: Natural History According to Jeffrey Holland

- Mormons want to be a mainstream faith but its based on lies.

- The God Delusion

- Let's Talk Rainbows

Here are just a few of the Mormon beliefs, many directly from scripture and all taught by Mormon prophets, that conflict with science:

1. Global Flood

2. Tower of Babel and Confounding of Language

3. Prayers answered from the Throne of God near Kolob in a time frame of less than 4 years.

4. God and Jesus Christ travel from near Kolob to Earth

5. Kolob itself

6. Anthropomorphic beings suspended motionless in the air (as per Joseph Smith)

7. Claimed Book of Abraham provenance and narrative

8. Claimed Book of Mormon provenance and narrative

8. Adam ondi Ahman (Garden of Eden in Daviss County, MO)

10. No Death before "The Fall"

11. Dark skin color is a curse

12. Earth is no older than 10,000 years

13. The continents of the Eastern and Western Hemispheres separated, and the Atlantic Ocean was formed, less than 6,000 years ago.

The list is much longer but a baker's dozen items should make the point.

When Mormons make the statement that their religion does not conflict with science, I suggest to them (as I am doing to you) that they need to read more about Mormonism, or more about science, or both.

Many Mormons I know (including a few dozen in my extended family) have learned not to make such statements outside of church (and especially not in my presence).

DrW wrote: ... (and especially not in my presence) ...

Are You a snapper?