Literal or only partially literal interpretations

[_bcuzbcuz]

I'm a little confused. Well, maybe more than a little. I find it very hard, following the discussions here on this board, to grasp which parts of the Bible that Mormons feel are truly scripture and which they view as only partially true. Smith said something about the Bible being the word of God in as much as it has been "translated correctly".

Does the Mormon church have an opinion on the writings of Jeremiah?

What about Jer. 5: 22? http://Bible.cc/jeremiah/5-22.htm

New International Version (©1984)
Should you not fear me?" declares the LORD. "Should you not tremble in my presence? I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Have you no respect for me? Why don't you tremble in my presence? I, the LORD, define the ocean's sandy shoreline as an everlasting boundary that the waters cannot cross. The waves may toss and roar, but they can never pass the boundaries I set.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Do you not fear me? declares the LORD. Do you not tremble before me? I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea, a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass; though the waves toss, they cannot prevail; though they roar, they cannot pass over it.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
'Do you not fear Me?' declares the LORD. 'Do you not tremble in My presence? For I have placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, An eternal decree, so it cannot cross over it. Though the waves toss, yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot cross over it.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

Just a few of the available translations but they seem overwhelmingly in agreement that waves cannot pass over the shore and nor will they ever be able to. I just went on to Youtube and punched in "Tsunami".

How else can a tsunami be defined other than "waves roaring and passing over the sand"? (Is the word "tsunami" mentioned in Japanese translations of the Bible?)

Did Jeremiah get it wrong?

[_just me]

The LDS interpretation of the Bible is pretty fluid in the mind of the individual LDS member. Fluid enough that when pressed with something like this verse they can make it say whatever they want.

Either there had never been a Tsunami prior to that being written (I have heard this one) or it is not literal or it was perhaps mistranslated.

It is only necessary to come up with these possibilities in order for the testimony to be saved. No more thinking is done and the issue is put out of their mind.

Now, if the verse is used by the LDS church to back any of its doctrine the LDS member will be very rigid in their interpretation and will not budge from what the church tells them it means. Even in the face of opposing evidence. In that case the evidence is disregarded.

This is all general. You will find that apologists and NOMs are different than the regular Sunday crowd.

In the Old Testament Sunday School Manual this verse is used in conjunction with the surrounding verses to discuss the importance of repentance. Nothing is said of the literalness of it.

[_Runtu]

I've never been a literalist, and most Mormons I know are literalists pretty much where the church tells them to be literalists.

[_subgenius]

I'm a little confused. Well, maybe more than a little. I find it very hard, following the discussions here on this board, to grasp which parts of the Bible that Mormons feel are truly scripture and which they view as only partially true. Smith said something about the Bible being the word of God in as much as it has been "translated correctly".

Does the Mormon church have an opinion on the writings of Jeremiah?

What about Jer. 5: 22? http://Bible.cc/jeremiah/5-22.htm

....

Just a few of the available translations but they seem overwhelmingly in agreement that waves cannot pass over the shore and nor will they ever be able to. I just went on to Youtube and punched in "Tsunami".

How else can a tsunami be defined other than "waves roaring and passing over the sand"? (Is the word "tsunami" mentioned in Japanese translations of the Bible?)

Did Jeremiah get it wrong?

it would seem that one may have to consider a few things with your example.
such as:
1. All the listed translations are likely from the same source, from the same Greek text or likely from one of the other sources (ie. KJV) So, having many varied "translations" state the seemingly same notion is not a surprise.
2. what does the author mean by "sea"? Your interpretation has assumed that it means ocean as opposed to the Dead Sea, etc, so a "literal" view of this passage would require a deeper knowledge of the original text.
3. Also, a literal view would require one to consider the text "prevail" and "roar". A Tsunami may be a breach but it is hardly a literal passing over of the entire sea.
4. A literal translation of each verse can hardly be considered appropriate, Christ advocated the use of parables, similes, etc...

so, my opinion is that the use of a Tsunami to illustrate a contradiction to Jer 5:22 is an example of translating incorrectly.
One can view this verse either literally or figuratively and the meaning is not all that different between the two.

[_moksha]

Did Jeremiah get it wrong?

Trembling in the presence of a loving God seems to defeat the purpose of a loving God. The more appropriate feeling would be of comfort and joy. Several times in the New Testament, the message was given that it is all about love. To me, that love should be the filter for sifting for symbolic truths in any of the sacred writings.

[_subgenius]

Trembling in the presence of a loving God seems to defeat the purpose of a loving God. The more appropriate feeling would be of comfort and joy. Several times in the New Testament, the message was given that it is all about love. To me, that love should be the filter for sifting for symbolic truths in any of the sacred writings.

Lamentations 3:38
Out of the mouth of the most High proceeds not evil and good?
God has the power and right to destroy your life or to bless it, and anyone who knows God holds this fact in reverence and awe.
Trembling and fear for God is used in the scriptures to distinguish between those who have reverence for God and those who do not. Arrogance arises where there is no fear because there is no desire for obedience and no respect. Without fear there is no concern for the consequences of sin.
Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Proverbs 15:33
"The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
Proverbs 16:6
"By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil."

[_Drifting]

Trembling in the presence of a loving God seems to defeat the purpose of a loving God. The more appropriate feeling would be of comfort and joy. Several times in the New Testament, the message was given that it is all about love. To me, that love should be the filter for sifting for symbolic truths in any of the sacred writings.

Lamentations 3:38
Out of the mouth of the most High proceeds not evil and good?
God has the power and right to destroy your life or to bless it, and anyone who knows God holds this fact in reverence and awe.
Trembling and fear for God is used in the scriptures to distinguish between those who have reverence for God and those who do not. Arrogance arises where there is no fear because there is no desire for obedience and no respect. Without fear there is no concern for the consequences of sin.
Proverbs 1:7
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
Proverbs 15:33
"The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
Proverbs 16:6
"By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil."

...and yet Hinckley, when in the FP said:

Let us recognize that fear comes not of God, but rather that this gnawing, destructive element comes from the adversary of truth and righteousness. Fear is the antithesis of faith. It is corrosive in its effects, even deadly.

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

[_subgenius]

...and yet Hinckley, when in the FP said:

Let us recognize that fear comes not of God, but rather that this gnawing, destructive element comes from the adversary of truth and righteousness. Fear is the antithesis of faith. It is corrosive in its effects, even deadly.

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

If you want to PM me your address i will gladly send you a free copy of the scriptures for your use.
A basic study and understanding of the scriptures and even an amateur practice of faith and religion knows that the fear Hinckley speaks about in your quote is not the same fear i was talking about or that Jeremiah is talking about. A fear of God is not the same as a fear of embarrassment, or a fear of falling, or a fear of getting fired, etc..
Stick with milk you are not quite ready for meat.
For starters, research the Hebrew word "Yirah" which is translated as both "fear" and as "awe"....never as dread or loathing.

[_Drifting]

Try this one then:

Fear of God. Among all of the possible fears, this is the only one that is valid. However, it is not fear in the normal sense of lack of courage, but rather love, respect, and reverence.

So LDS fear = love, respect, and reverence

[_subgenius]

Try this one then:

Fear of God. Among all of the possible fears, this is the only one that is valid. However, it is not fear in the normal sense of lack of courage, but rather love, respect, and reverence.

So LDS fear = love, respect, and reverence

More like Fear of God = Awe = living your life with a trembling awareness that it has meaning. The knowledge that choices you make have consequences of ultimate significance = love, respect, and reverence.

One must fear God but also develop an awareness of His love being all around us.
Have you ever looked at the night sky and felt awestruck but yet also overwhelmed by how seemingly minuscule you must be?

reference Rudolf Otto and the Mysterium Tremendum

"...this fear is due to the in-compatibility between man's egotism and the divine purity, between man's self-aggravated separateness and the infinity of God." - Huxley