Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

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_Drifting
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Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _Drifting »

If God dictated every word of the Book of Mormon how come He got so much wrong?

For example:

"... These last records ... shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior ... " (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, page 32)

In the 1964 edition it reads as follows:

"... These last records ... shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior ..." (Book of Mormon, 1964 edition, 1 Nephi 13:40)

Another important change was made in 1 Nephi 11:18; this is page 25 of the 1830 edition. In the 1830 edition it read: "... Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh." In modern editions it has been changed to read, "... Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh." The words, the Son of, were inserted in the middle of the sentence. Verse 21 of the same chapter originally read: "And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!" It was changed to read: "And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father!" Verse 32 of the same chapter, which is on page 26 of the original edition, was also changed. In the 1830 edition it reads: "... the Everlasting God, was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record." It was changed to read: "... the Son of the everlasting God, was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record."


Hmmm....

We have no choice but to believe:

a. God makes mistakes

or

b. God allowed Joseph to make the same type of mistakes that were the reason for needing the Book of Mormon in the first place - rather than relying on the mistake riddled Bible.

In fact some of the errors in the KJV were also made in the Book of Mormon, coincidence?
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_subgenius
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:If God dictated every word of the Book of Mormon how come He got so much wrong?

and yet another myopic OP.
"so much"? that is an exaggeration on your part and likely reveals your bias on the topic, but the veil between your topics and your motivation was lifted long ago, so let us begin dismantling....once again.

For example:...

since there are various examples, the one you provided seemingly is as good as another. The issue would be why such examples are openly known? Because even the most basic member of the church comes to understand that revelation is editing and modification is part of the prophet's charge, and all without secrecy or any nefarious cause.

Hmmm....

We have no choice but to believe:

not true, and the options which follow are narrow and justify the use of "myopic" above.

a. God makes mistakes

ugh

or

b. God allowed Joseph to make the same type of mistakes that were the reason for needing the Book of Mormon in the first place - rather than relying on the mistake riddled Bible.

the former does not conclude the latter. God easily "allows" mistakes to be made, but one does not throw the baby out with the bath water...as you promote here.

In fact some of the errors in the KJV were also made in the Book of Mormon, coincidence?

probably not.

D&C 1:24
Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding


The church and its members are quite clear on the notion of prophets being inerrant - we don't believe that. LDS doctrine does not consider prophets to be simply stenographers of the Lord. Prophets are "inspired" and thus begins the process. If you are promoting a doctrine of "Scriptural inerrancy" i believe you have the wrong audience, for it is not the doctrine of the LDS church. Modification, revision, expansion and improvement are.
The underlying notion is that if the author is a true prophet then the revisions are a legitimate exercise, if the author is not a true prophet then the revisions are irrelevant in the first place.
Your proposition here is way off any reasonable argument.
Perhaps you should reconsider and "revise" your position....after you receive revelation on it ,of course.
;)
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _Drifting »

subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:If God dictated every word of the Book of Mormon how come He got so much wrong?

and yet another myopic OP.
"so much"? that is an exaggeration on your part and likely reveals your bias on the topic, but the veil between your topics and your motivation was lifted long ago, so let us begin dismantling....once again.



Sorry subgenius, I should have been more specific about the volume of changes.
When I say 'so much' I actually meant, over 4,000 things wrong that have subsequently had to be changed from the original publication.

The Church openly admits to a catalogue of errors requiring correction...

I have heard that changes have been made to the Book of Mormon since it was first published. What was changed and why?

The answer to this question depends on understanding a little about the Book of Mormon translation and publication process.

1. As Joseph Smith translated the golden plates by the power of God, he dictated the words to a scribe. The scribes occasionally made spelling and grammatical mistakes as they wrote down his words. For example, in 1 Nephi 7:20 the words “were sorrowful” were transcribed as “ware sarraful.” The scribes weren’t uneducated, but spelling hadn’t been standardized at the time.

2. The original handwritten manuscript of the translation was then copied to make a new handwritten manuscript for the printer. At this stage, some spelling and grammatical errors were corrected, and punctuation was added. But some new errors also crept in as words were miscopied.

3. The printer did his best to accurately set the type. However, he occasionally introduced still other errors. For example, in Alma 57:25 he misread the word “joy” and instead typeset “foes.”

4. The Prophet Joseph Smith looked carefully at the first three editions of the Book of Mormon, and he continued to help make refinements and adjustments. But some errors weren’t found until later editions. In 1981 a printer’s error in Alma 16:5 was finally corrected, changing “whether” to “whither”—making it conform to the original manuscript as the Prophet had translated it from the golden plates.

5. Other changes included new chapter and verse breaks and footnotes with cross-references.


None of these points address the fact that some of the changes drastically changed (or even reversed) the meaning of the scripture.
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _Drifting »

subgenius wrote:since there are various examples, the one you provided seemingly is as good as another. The issue would be why such examples are openly known? Because even the most basic member of the church comes to understand that revelation is editing and modification is part of the prophet's charge, and all without secrecy or any nefarious cause.


So you are definitely going to be able to show me an official pronouncement of the change to the introduction of the Book of Mormon in 2006. Go ahead.
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _Fence Sitter »

I thought one of the eye witness accounts said that the next word or words would not appear on the seer stone until the part they were working on was correctly repeated by the scribe back to Joseph Smith?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _Drifting »

Fence Sitter wrote:I thought one of the eye witness accounts said that the next word or words would not appear on the seer stone until the part they were working on was correctly repeated by the scribe back to Joseph Smith?


I do believe you are correct.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _just me »

God was having an identity crisis during that time period. He also hadn't studied up on proper English grammar and such, him being so busy and all.
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _Runtu »

What I think is a more interesting question is, if it was dictated, why did Joseph Smith feel the need to make extensive revisions and emendations in 1837 and then again in 1840?
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _Aristotle Smith »

Runtu wrote:What I think is a more interesting question is, if it was dictated, why did Joseph Smith feel the need to make extensive revisions and emendations in 1837 and then again in 1840?


Trinitarian Jesus don't like polygamy.

Polytheistic/King Follet Jesus like him some polygamy.

Any questions?

Aristotle Smith's number one rule for understanding the development of all Mormon doctrine and history: Follow the polygamy.
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Re: Changes to God's dictation of the Book of Mormon..

Post by _subgenius »

Drifting wrote:Sorry subgenius, I should have been more specific about the volume of changes.
When I say 'so much' I actually meant, over 4,000 things wrong that have subsequently had to be changed from the original publication.

you are including many typographical or grammatical errors in order to exaggerate your intended point. that is, once again, disingenuous of your post.

The Church openly admits to a catalogue of errors requiring correction...

agreed, and they also sufficiently explain why such errors required "correction".

I have heard that changes have been made to the Book of Mormon since it was first published. What was changed and why?....

aside from typographical errors and printing/translation or grammar mistakes, this was answered in my last post.

3. The printer did his best to accurately set the type. However, he occasionally introduced still other errors. For example, in Alma 57:25 he misread the word “joy” and instead typeset “foes.”.....

interesting...see below.
also, your modest 5 point list here is rather incomplete and not an accurate accounting of the reasons why revisions and corrections have been necessary.

5. Other changes included new chapter and verse breaks and footnotes with cross-references.

which accounts for the bulk of your above mentioned 4,000 i am sure.

None of these points address the fact that some of the changes drastically changed (or even reversed) the meaning of the scripture.

actually they do...for example their is a "drastic" change between "joy" and "foes" (see above #3)...even my responding post sufficiently explains.
read for comprehension...
...and then, at least, try to familiarize yourself with what a prophet actually does and what it actually means.
Otherwise be content with the notion that the answers you seem to insist that people post are not always going to be the ones you insist they must be.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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