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Did Jesus really use exactly the same words on two separate occasions?

3 Nephi 13:25-27:
25. ...Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26. Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27. Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Matthew 6:25-27:
25. Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26. Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27. Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Drifting wrote:Did Jesus really use exactly the same words on two separate occasions?

3 Nephi 13:25-27:
25. ...Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26. Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27. Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Matthew 6:25-27:
25. Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26. Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27. Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

The original Greek of Matthew 6:27 reads:

Who moreover out of you by being anxious is able to add to the life span of him one hour?

Interesting that Jesus chose to use the mistranslation of the King James Bible in his address to the Nephites, 1600 years before that King James Bible mistranslation would occur. Jesus must have looked into the future, saw the error of the translators and thought to himself, "Cor, blimey! I like their version better than my original. I'm changing it when I go visit the Nephites."

Buffalo wrote:

Drifting wrote:Did Jesus really use exactly the same words on two separate occasions?

3 Nephi 13:25-27:
25. ...Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26. Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27. Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Matthew 6:25-27:
25. Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26. Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27. Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

The original Greek of Matthew 6:27 reads:
Who moreover out of you by being anxious is able to add to the life span of him one hour?
Interesting that Jesus chose to use the mistranslation of the King James Bible in his address to the Nephites, 1600 years before that King James Bible mistranslation would occur. Jesus must have looked into the future, saw the error of the translators and thought to himself, "Cor, blimey! I like their version better than my original. I'm changing it when I go visit the Nephites."

Matthew 6:27 in many versions of the greek Bible reads as follows: τις δε εξ υμων μεριμνων δυναται προσθειναι επι την ηλικιαν αυτου πηχυν ενα

The problem with this whole line of reasoning is that it presents a false position and is done purely to deceive people. The KJV of the Bible most often favors a word-for-word translation while more modern versions of the Bible favor a meaning-for-meaning translation in which the greek is expressed in more appropriate english phrases. As is often the case with many non-mormon/anti-mormon arguments, they state something which is true such as the meaning-for-meaning expression in greek would not nowdays be translated as the KJV does, but they then turn that into a false position when they attack the Book of Mormon and KJV with it and state it is a mistranslation. It is not correct to state that the translation of the greek could not be expressed word-for-word translation as the KJV does. For example, if you look at the greek, the word "πηχυν" is a noun defined as the fore-arm or a cubit. And you can do this for all the greek words above and see that word-for-word, the KJV translation is reasonable. I would be highly critical of anyone, or source, that would state otherwise.

In answer to you Drifting: Yes, apparently Jesus used exactly the same words in both instances.

Tobin wrote:In answer to you Drifting: Yes, apparently Jesus used exactly the same words in both instances.

Hmmm...then why did Joseph feel inspired to correct only the King James version of the account?

Matthew 6:25–27 (JST)

25 And, again, I say unto you, go ye into the world, and care not for the world; for the world will hate you, and will persecute you, and will turn you out of their synagogues.

26 Nevertheless, ye shall go forth from house to house, teaching the people; and I will go before you.

27 And your heavenly Father will provide for you, whatsoever things ye need for food, what ye shall eat; and for raiment, what ye shall wear or put on.

Drifting wrote:

Tobin wrote:In answer to you Drifting: Yes, apparently Jesus used exactly the same words in both instances.

Hmmm...then why did Joseph feel inspired to correct only the King James version of the account?

Matthew 6:25–27 (JST)
25 And, again, I say unto you, go ye into the world, and care not for the world; for the world will hate you, and will persecute you, and will turn you out of their synagogues.
26 Nevertheless, ye shall go forth from house to house, teaching the people; and I will go before you.
27 And your heavenly Father will provide for you, whatsoever things ye need for food, what ye shall eat; and for raiment, what ye shall wear or put on.

Joseph Smith felt like doing many things and embraced many odd ideas and did things I might not have chosen to do myself. It makes him an interesting, flawed and very human character in my opinion. As far as the JST is concerned, it is incomplete. This is obvious in this section of the JST since it actually deals with only verse 25 of Matthew if you carefully look at it. There is nothing more to read into it than that. It is just a curiosity and that is all.

Tobin wrote:Joseph Smith felt like doing many things and embraced many odd ideas and did things I might not have chosen to do myself. It makes him an interesting, flawed and very human character in my opinion. As far as the JST is concerned, it is incomplete. This is obvious in this section of the JST since it actually deals with the verses 25-28 of Matthew if you carefully look at it. It incorporates elements from all 4 verses and discards others. There is nothing more to read into it than that. It is just a curiosity and that is all.

This is from an official response about the JST, which seems to say it's rather more than just a curiosity.

Joseph Smith, the first prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, made a new rendition of the Bible based on the text of the King James Version (KJV). LDS theology holds the "Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly" (Articles of Faith 8). Smith explained that important doctrines had been lost from the Bible and that he had received a divine appointment from the Lord to make a new translation. The process was not a translation from ancient languages. Rather, Smith received revelation from God and made changes in the KJV that range from minor details to fully reconstituted chapters.

Drifting wrote:This is from an official response about the JST, which seems to say it's rather more than just a curiosity.

Joseph Smith, the first prophet of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, made a new rendition of the Bible based on the text of the King James Version (KJV). LDS theology holds the "Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly" (Articles of Faith 8). Smith explained that important doctrines had been lost from the Bible and that he had received a divine appointment from the Lord to make a new translation. The process was not a translation from ancient languages. Rather, Smith received revelation from God and made changes in the KJV that range from minor details to fully reconstituted chapters.

The restoration of the Gospel did that. If there are things in the JST that you find insightful or helpful in clarifying certain parts of the doctrine of the Gospel, then go nuts. I find some discussion, research, and meditation work just as well.

Drifting wrote:Did Jesus really use exactly the same words on two separate occasions?

No, but Joseph may not have understood that what was written in the KJV was almost certainly not going to even be close to what said by Jesus in the Old World(assuming the event ever took place). This means, assuming for a second that the Book of Mormon is true, that what Jesus may have felt to repeat to the nephites would also not look anything like what is written in the KJV. So now one has to wonder why the Book of Mormon repeats what the KJV says word for word.

Themis wrote:

Drifting wrote:Did Jesus really use exactly the same words on two separate occasions?

No, but Joseph may not have understood that what was written in the KJV was almost certainly not going to even be close to what said by Jesus in the Old World(assuming the event ever took place). This means, assuming for a second that the Book of Mormon is true, that what Jesus may have felt to repeat to the Nephites would also not look anything like what is written in the KJV. So now one has to wonder why the Book of Mormon repeats what the KJV says word for word.

I have heard some apologists argue that Joseph did at times resort to simply using the Bible instead of translating via the U&T. Joseph did this whenever he recognized something as similar to the Bible. Apparently the U&T hurt Joseph's eyes so when he found a few passages that he could get from the Bible, he did so.

Makes little sense to me that Joseph would choose to get 1% of the Book of Mormon from the 'not perfect' Bible and use the U&T for the other 99%.

LDS truthseeker wrote:I have heard some apologists argue that Joseph did at times resort to simply using the Bible instead of translating via the U&T. Joseph did this whenever he recognized something as similar to the Bible. Apparently the U&T hurt Joseph's eyes so when he found a few passages that he could get from the Bible, he did so.

Makes little sense to me that Joseph would choose to get 1% of the Book of Mormon from the 'not perfect' Bible and use the U&T for the other 99%.

I remember reading this apologetic as a believer and not thinking it was very reasonable. again it is not based on actual evidence, but is a necessary argument to get around a sticky problem for the Book of Mormon. Since the story would not be close to what the kJV says, how did he recognize it, and did God also tell him when to start copying it and when to stop. This of course does conflict with what they were trying to portray, which is that the Bible was never present during the translation.