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I came across this message in a scientific journal today. I thought I would share and support the conclusion with my own comments.

"Infidel France has during the few past years produced many pioneers in the work of reformation. Of this class was Fourier, who strange to tell, has many adherents in this country—this land of Bibles! One reformer will mark out one plan, as the one the most productive of good, another, will select its opposite; and so on, but the world is never the better; wicked men and seducers not only remain untouched, but according to prophecy, they wax worse and worse. There are the same distinctions in society—the rich and the poor are still among us—affluence and poverty still look on one another—hypocrisy and hatred still rankle in the human breast. The efforts made by christian men, philanthropists and good men undoubtedly they are, seem for a while to bid fair to revolutionize society entirely, but the popular tide soon sets in, and the mass becomes as before. How many have dreamed of the happy days of millennial glory, when the world would be so much improved that sin would not be found in it. But alas! these dreams are all illusory! It is in vain that man attempts to make a paradise of this corrupt earth! The curse is upon it, and all nature groans beneath it, and man likewise, who has become enlightened by the gospel, groans within himself for the day of redemption."

I could not agree more. It seems that this writer knew what he was talking about. A mix of using the scientific method of observation with spiritual truth. Always a good mix if you ask me.

A great work of a great journal in its day.

http://www.history.rochester.edu/Scient ... 012/n1.htm

I have been saying for some time that science drifts in the wind and it is not the solid block of truth that many declare it to be. Much of science is based on agenda and many theories are a stretch of the data. The latest whopper is global warming caused by man. Sure no one can deny that the temperature of the earth changes and we had a warming period for a while. But to extend that into some disaster movie plot made no sense. The recent stop in temperature increases does not fit the model that was used to show how man was turning the earth into Venus.

Some time back I remember scientific stories about how we are entering an ice age. Then the earth started to warm and all of that was forgotten. Then the warmist came along and screamed about how evil man was destroying the planet with CO2. Now the earth has stopped warming for a while and we may get into a period of a solar minimum. I rather have the warming. But the point is that without complete understanding science went off and projected the future and blew it. Now we have the future in front of us and we can see how screwed up their analysis was. But this should give us pause to reconsider all of those theories of the past. Since the past will not reveal itself like the future we can not see first hand if science got it right. I have serious doubts about projections into the future and serious doubts about projections into the past. All of the arm waving and peer reviewed journals got it wrong with an ice age and it appears they got it wrong with man made global warming. But I know this will mean nothing to many people. They will continue to embrace the "truth" of science and the "facts" of science. And even when I point out it is a belief and not fact I will once again be told that I just don't understand enough about science and if I would just go to school and learn the subject that I too would drink the koolaid. And when I point out that it is they who don't understand the history and the lack of correct analysis of the past I get told how stupid I am. So when I came across this article in Scientific American I decided to post it. Because when science is right I will be happy to agree and when science overreaches I will push back.

Many people use science as the basis for their world view. It seems reasonable and logical. But many do not take the time to do a serious study of the history of science to determine if in fact it is as solid as they think it is. I believe that many people would question their own decision if they knew more about their own foundation block.

Franktalk wrote:I came across this message in a scientific journal today. I thought I would share and support the conclusion with my own comments.

"Infidel France has during the few past years produced many pioneers in the work of reformation. Of this class was Fourier, who strange to tell, has many adherents in this country—this land of Bibles! One reformer will mark out one plan, as the one the most productive of good, another, will select its opposite; and so on, but the world is never the better; wicked men and seducers not only remain untouched, but according to prophecy, they wax worse and worse. There are the same distinctions in society—the rich and the poor are still among us—affluence and poverty still look on one another—hypocrisy and hatred still rankle in the human breast. The efforts made by christian men, philanthropists and good men undoubtedly they are, seem for a while to bid fair to revolutionize society entirely, but the popular tide soon sets in, and the mass becomes as before. How many have dreamed of the happy days of millennial glory, when the world would be so much improved that sin would not be found in it. But alas! these dreams are all illusory! It is in vain that man attempts to make a paradise of this corrupt earth! The curse is upon it, and all nature groans beneath it, and man likewise, who has become enlightened by the gospel, groans within himself for the day of redemption."

I could not agree more. It seems that this writer knew what he was talking about. A mix of using the scientific method of observation with spiritual truth. Always a good mix if you ask me.

A great work of a great journal in its day.

http://www.history.rochester.edu/Scient ... 012/n1.htm

Quaintly ancient science, nevertheless. Scientific America December 12, 1846. Where they also declare: "A girl belonging to Wrentham, Mass. has been sentenced to sixty days in the house of correction, for pretending to be a witch." What would be the sentence if she was a witch? Now is that science or what!!?

Are you saying your view of science and religion is +150 years old?

Whether our earth is entering a new ice age or whether it suffers from global warming isn't really the point. Scientists work with their data and try to interpret it. The point is not declaring something in a black and white truth, but presenting a point of view and then other scientists and lay persons who discuss, dissect and review and come to their own conclusions.

I suggest you spend some time viewing Hans Rosling's presentations, either on youtube or TED. He uses data to make prognoses, not truths. You can draw your own conclusions.

bcuzbcuz wrote:Quaintly ancient science, nevertheless. Scientific America December 12, 1846. Where they also declare: "A girl belonging to Wrentham, Mass. has been sentenced to sixty days in the house of correction, for pretending to be a witch." What would be the sentence if she was a witch? Now is that science or what!!?

Are you saying your view of science and religion is +150 years old?

Whether our earth is entering a new ice age or whether it suffers from global warming isn't really the point. Scientists work with their data and try to interpret it. The point is not declaring something in a black and white truth, but presenting a point of view and then other scientists and lay persons who discuss, dissect and review and come to their own conclusions.

I suggest you spend some time viewing Hans Rosling's presentations, either on youtube or TED. He uses data to make prognoses, not truths. You can draw your own conclusions.

Instead of commenting about the large swings in understanding as seen by the science of 150 years ago verses today you instead wish to cast me as a man out of touch and the people 150 years ago as out of touch as well. But the point is that in 150 years the people of that day will do the same to you and your understanding. What I am saying is that for all of the arm waving and assertions of knowledge we actually know little. Wild speculation is the order of the day. The future will not be kind to you just as you are not kind to those of the past. Just where did I read that idea, let me think, oh something about not judging others or else you will judged the same way. Probably a good thing to live by. Although it does strike me odd that some sheepherder 2000 years ago could be so correct and scientist 150 years ago could be so wrong. Odd don't you think?

Although it does strike me odd that some sheepherder 2000 years ago could be so correct

Hey, so who are you referring to here and what was this person "so correct" about? TIA

just me wrote:Hey, so who are you referring to here and what was this person "so correct" about? TIA

I was just making a general comment that some ideas seem to last and describe well the future. While other ideas do not seem to have much holding power. The idea that people who think them self wise tend to judge people of the past as ignorant. What they miss is the overreach that they too are doing. The people of the past use the same methods to guess at a future as the people today guess at the future. And of course the people today will be wrong just as often as those of the past. The reason has little to do with data but with the ego and lack of vision we all have. Where I trust that the people of the past were just as smart as we are there are some today who believe they are somehow smarter. It is my opinion that people are in fact losing IQ over time. I think that people of the past had to work harder at staying alive where today we depend on technology. Many people today if they lost their technology would die.

Franktalk wrote:

just me wrote:Hey, so who are you referring to here and what was this person "so correct" about? TIA

I was just making a general comment that some ideas seem to last and describe well the future. While other ideas do not seem to have much holding power. The idea that people who think them self wise tend to judge people of the past as ignorant. What they miss is the overreach that they too are doing. The people of the past use the same methods to guess at a future as the people today guess at the future. And of course the people today will be wrong just as often as those of the past. The reason has little to do with data but with the ego and lack of vision we all have. Where I trust that the people of the past were just as smart as we are there are some today who believe they are somehow smarter. It is my opinion that people are in fact losing IQ over time. I think that people of the past had to work harder at staying alive where today we depend on technology. Many people today if they lost their technology would die.

It didn't seem like a general comment. It seemed as though you had a specific person in mind and specific truths they had.

If I understand you correctly, now, you are saying that scientists today do not know anything more about the world around us than the people of the past. Is that what you are saying?

I'll see your strawman and raise you a strawman.

Number of people whose life expectancy has increased due to religion since Chirst=0
Number of people whose life expectancy has increased due to science since Chirst=Billions and Billions.

just me wrote:It didn't seem like a general comment. It seemed as though you had a specific person in mind and specific truths they had.

If I understand you correctly, now, you are saying that scientists today do not know anything more about the world around us than the people of the past. Is that what you are saying?

There is a statement in the Bible that I was referring to.

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

The way I read scripture I see many applications to the same truth. So these may refer to the judgment day but they also apply to our daily life. We live in a pattern of scripture. It is all around us.

As to the scientist of 150 years ago they had the same attitudes that todays scientist have. The data may be different and the conclusions are different but the men are the same. They use what they have and overreach with what they think they know.

Fence Sitter wrote:I'll see your strawman and raise you a strawman.

Number of people whose life expectancy has increased due to religion since Chirst=0
Number of people whose life expectancy has increased due to science since Chirst=Billions and Billions.

All who are saved, 100% of them are saved because of what Christ did. You see death as an end, I see it as the pathway to the next reality. I find it interesting that as men become more prone to run from God that life expectancy went up. It seems that God is giving people more time to come to Him.