http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5EUcYw96us
or, if You don't like him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95aBxOGHrrk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhujM7T1_fQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7bfudsfZjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68p-uKBxC8g
[/prelude]
in another thread,
gdemetz
wrote:Just because someone doesn't mention something doesn't mean that they don't know it.
OK. Somebody we all know DID mention something - which is disappeared:
Mark 9:4 wrote:And there appeared unto them Elias with Mosesª: and they were talking with Jesus.
What does this verse mean? Don't decide hurriedly!JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATION
Mark 9:3
wrote:John the Baptist was on the Mount of Transfiguration. (compare Mark 9:4)
And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses or in other words, John the Baptist and Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms:
in other words = Putting it differently, usually more simply or explicitly.
Wiktionary:
in other words (conjunctive, idiomatic) = Stated or interpreted another way; Used to introduce an explanation, simplification, or clarification.
“I Have a Question,” Ensign, Apr 1983, 21–23:
Larry E. Dahl,
associate professor of Church history and doctrine,
Brigham Young University
wrote:Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist, and perhaps others appeared to Peter, James, and John on the Mount of Transfiguration, where the “keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 16:19) were conferred upon them.
Peter, James, and John saw Moses and Elijah (“Elias” is the Greek rendering of the Hebrew Elijah; see Luke 4:25–26; 1 Kgs. 17) talking with Christ.
In the Prophet’s inspired translation of Mark’s record, we learn that John the Baptist was also present on the Mount of Transfiguration. JST, Mark 9:3 reads:
“And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses, or in other words, John the Baptist and Moses; and they were talking with Jesus.”
Robert J. Matthews, who has done extensive work with the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible comments upon this verse:
“Considerable discussion has been stimulated by this comment, since the presence of the Baptist at the Mount has never before been suggested. Furthermore, it is certain that Elijah the Prophet was present at the Mount, and the term Elias (the Greek form the Hebrew name Elijah) has generally been understood to have reference to him. For this reason many have wondered if this passage has somehow been printed erroneously. However, New Testament 2, folio 2, page 24, reads exactly as the printed Inspired Version for this passage. Likewise, the Bernhisel copy, page 74, reads with precisely the same wording, thus corroborating the present text of the printed Inspired Version. This discussion is not intended to be a doctrinal explanation of the matter, but simply a presentation of evidence that the published account gives the text in the original manuscript. …
“There can be no mistake that the Elias at the Mount of Transfiguration was Elijah the prophet. What role John the Baptist might have had there is not known.” (Joseph Smith’s Translation of the Bible, Provo: BYU Press, 1975, pp. 180, 367.)
Elder Bruce R. McConkie gives us the following explanation about John the Baptist being on the Mount of Transfiguration:
“It is not to be understand that John the Baptist was the Elias who appeared with Moses to confer keys and authority upon those who then held the Melchizedek Priesthood, which higher priesthood already embraced and included all of the authority and power John had held and exercised during his ministry. Rather, for some reason that remains unknown—because of the partial record of the proceedings—John played some other part in the glorious manifestations then vouchsafed to mortals. Perhaps he was there, as the last legal administrator under the Old Covenant, to symbolize that the law was fulfilled and all old things were done away, thus contrasting his position with that of Peter, James, and John who were then becoming the first legal administrators of the New Kingdom.” (Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965, 1:404.)
And the corollary:
The Elias on the Mount of Transfiguration, then, was Elijah, although John the Baptist was also present.
...
Many of our questions about the Mount of Transfiguration might be answered if we had a complete record.
...
When we are privileged to receive the full account, we may find that several other personages, in addition to those thus far mentioned, were present, and that much more was said and done than we currently know about. In the meantime, we can be anxiously engaged in stretching our minds toward understanding and our souls in worthy application of that which we have already received.
I Have a Question, Ensign July 1999
Questions of general interest answered for guidance, not as official statements of Church policy
How can Elias, who appeared with Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration, be identified as both the Old Testament prophet Elijah (see Matt. 17:3, footnote b) and as John the Baptist (see JST, Mark 9:3, footnote a)?
Keith W. Perkins,
professor of Church history and doctrine,
Brigham Young University
wrote:The term Elias, in addition to being the actual name of an Old Testament prophet, is used several different ways in the scriptures. Familiarity with the “doctrine of Elias” and with how the word Elias is used in the scriptures is essential to understanding references to Elias.
...some hooey...
Without latter-day knowledge of the doctrine of Elias, we would be in darkness regarding the meaning of the word Elias and the missions of individuals referred to as Elias. Through revelation, the “spirit of Elias” was revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith and, in his words, “I know it is true” (Teachings, 337).
Our New Light on Jesus’ Mortal Life and Teachings, Ensign Jan 1995
Jay M. Todd
Managing Editor
wrote:More than is recorded in the KJV occurred at Jesus’ transfiguration.
- More took place on the mount than is written in the KJV.
- On the way down the mountain, Peter, James, and John asked Jesus about that which was confusing to them—the different Eliases, the timing of their works, and their prophesied comings.
...
Jesus gave much information to his disciples on the Mount of Olives that is unrecorded in the KJV.
...for centuries the sequencing of those items has caused gospel students to raise questions. Thus, it is not surprising that the Lord would reveal to his great latter-day restorer, Joseph Smith, clear and additional information concerning his Mount of Olive teachings. But the text and new information given to the Prophet Joseph Smith is so extensive, so corrective to the existing KJV that there is insufficient space here to explore those dimensions.
...
In addition to Moses and Elijah, John the Baptist also came to Jesus when he was transfigured before Peter, James, and John.
You see, the meaning of the expression "in other words" is not the same as in the standard US, GB or AU English.
Last but not least:
Curious wording?- Scriptures
-- Study Helps
--- Bible Dictionary
wrote:The curious wording of JST Mark 9:3 does not imply that the Elias at the Transfiguration was John the Baptist, but that in addition to Elijah the prophet, John the Baptist was present.
The "in other words" was one of JS' pet phrase.
He used it
- in D&C 22 times
- in Book of Mormon 12 times
- in JST 4 times
The KJV doesn't use it.
If You make a scripture search (http://www.LDS.org/scriptures/search?la ... r+words%22), there are only 3 match in JST, You don't get JST Mark 9:3
It is esoteric, available on only for adepts...
- the "Scriptures / Joseph Smith Translation" item doesn't list it
- there is no link assigned to the "ª" note index in Mark 9:4
- all the JST Mark 9:3 links are pointing to Mark 9:4
Fortunately, - until now - the hands of the Correlation Committee didn't reach some of the foreign versions.
In German
Heiligen Schriften
Auszüge Aus Der Joseph-Smith-Übersetzung Der Bibel
wrote:Markus 9:3
JSÜ (vergleiche Markus 9:4)
(Johannes der Täufer war auf Democrat Berg der Verklärung.)
3 Und da erschien ihnen Elias mit Mose oder, mit anderen Worten, Johannes der Täufer und Mose; und sie redeten mit Jesus.
In Russian
Священные Писания
- Выдержки из Перевода Библии, выполненного Джозефом Смитом
wrote:ПДжС, от Марка 9:3 (сравните от Марка 9:4)
(Иоанн Креститель был на горе Преображения.)
3 И явился им Елияс с Моисеем, – то есть, другими словами, Иоанн Креститель и Моисей, – и беседовали с Иисусом.
In some language - for example Dutch - the JST is missing as a whole.
Do You want to be adepts?
Don't begin the scripture reading from relevant version : http://www.LDS.org/scriptures
Use http://www.classic.scriptures.LDS.org instead - before its doom.
Only a few year - or month, or minute - and we will be in darkness, without latter-day knowledge of the doctrine of Elias.
