Intelligence, however defined, is not created or made (D&C 93:29); it is coeternal with God (TPJS, pp. 353-54). Some LDS leaders have interpreted this to mean that intelligent beings—called intelligences—existed before and after they were given spirit bodies in the premortal existence. Others have interpreted it to mean that intelligent beings were organized as spirits out of eternal intelligent matter, that they did not exist as individuals before they were organized as spirit beings in the premortal existence (Abr. 3:22; JD 7:57; 2:124)
But D&C 93:29 says that "Man was also in the beginning with God."
Wouldn't that mean that we were all individuals, who always existed as individuals?
Verse 23 says "Ye were also in the beginning with the Father," and wouldn't that mean we were there as individuals?
How can these verses be interpreted to mean "that intelligent beings were organized as spirits out of eternal intelligent matter," and "did not exist as individuals before they were organized as spirit beings in the premortal existence"?
Wouldn't that mean that we were all individuals, who always existed as individuals?
Not necessarily. The doctrine itself (D&C Institute Manual on 93:29) has it as a combination of intelligence and spirit.
Verse 23 says "Ye were also in the beginning with the Father," and wouldn't that mean we were there as individuals
Sure. But beginning of what? The creation of the earth? The Universe? The Multiverse?
What about Abraham 3:18-19?
Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal. And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am amore intelligent than they all.
Isn't that saying that we always existed as individuals?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1: 1-5 We are not gods, we are God's. He sent Jesus so that our misunderstandings about Him would be straightened out.
That is what I believe, and I am sticking to it.
Huckelberry said: I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
Intelligence, however defined, is not created or made (D&C 93:29); it is coeternal with God (TPJS, pp. 353-54). Some LDS leaders have interpreted this to mean that intelligent beings—called intelligences—existed before and after they were given spirit bodies in the premortal existence. Others have interpreted it to mean that intelligent beings were organized as spirits out of eternal intelligent matter, that they did not exist as individuals before they were organized as spirit beings in the premortal existence (Abr. 3:22; JD 7:57; 2:124)
But D&C 93:29 says that "Man was also in the beginning with God."
Wouldn't that mean that we were all individuals, who always existed as individuals?
Verse 23 says "Ye were also in the beginning with the Father," and wouldn't that mean we were there as individuals?
How can these verses be interpreted to mean "that intelligent beings were organized as spirits out of eternal intelligent matter," and "did not exist as individuals before they were organized as spirit beings in the premortal existence"?
Hello,
in my opinion if there is an afterlife it would most likely be reincarnation as opposed to any of the other after life scenarios. Reincarnation is coherent in my opinion. I therefore agree with you that we did exist prior to our arrival on earth.
We were all in the beginning, including God, intelligences. Christ developed faster, and consequently, was chosen to be the firstborn (spirit child) of those intelligences to one of the Heavenly Mothers. The vast "seas" of intelligences are what constitute what is termed the "light of Christ" (see "Light of Christ" on this site).
Can you offer verification of this from the Bible? I would be interested to read those verses. Using Mormon sources to support Mormon theology does not cut it for me. Thanks.
Albion, this is a "Mormon Discussion" site, and if the Mormon Doctrines here are too deep for you or you just don't want to accept Mormon scripture, then maybe you will be very frustrated on this site!
Oh, gdemetz, I promise I'll really try to live up to your high intellectual standards. In the meantime, can you provide the verification I asked for from the Bible?
