David G. Hennessey's Narrow Neck Hypothesis Reviewed

[_DWhitmer]

It's always entertaining to see what those at the BMAF (Book of Mormon Arachaeological Forum) will come up to try and defend their presupposition that all Book of Mormon events took place down in Mesoamerica despite not being able to show how a single land prophecy was fulfilled there.

As if they could surmount the church wide curse of a darkened mind (D&C 84:54), Hennessey gave it an attempt anyway:

With so many scholars over the years trying to place Book of Mormon sites and not being able to, we wonder if we are looking at things correctly. The reality is that if we can place one or two primary landmarks then we may be able to reconstruct the major parts of the geography for the book. (http://www.bmaf.org/node/505)

Wow! Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black! The answers are duh, and duh, but what did Hennessey bring to the table that could possibly surmount the curse? He merely borrowed an idea from Hauck (whose model was reviewed by John Clark) and then placed that idea on a map. Unfortunately, he could not surmount the curse.

To look at things "correctly" one would need to include the four land marks that ALL Mesoapologists ignore: the FOUR SEAS that bordered the Land Northward.

...did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east. (Helaman 3:8)

And the Land Southward was bordered by THREE SEAS:

... thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward. (Alma 22:32)

It's not hard to figure out the layout once the unchangeables, i.e. the seas are identified. I will give Hennessey credit for contradicting ALL Mesoapologists by placing the Narrow Neck along the West Sea! [Not sure if he realizes the ramifications of this?] If the City of Bountiful is next to the Neck, then the City of Bountiful must be along the West Sea. Unfortunately, again, ALL Mesoapologists place the City of Bountiful along the Sea East (contrary to what it says).

[All of which is laid out at the site in my signature.]

Therefore, the layout would be a piece of land in the north surrounded by four seas and one in the south surrounded by three, with a "small" AND "short" neck connecting them on the left. It's that simple. Such a configuration is found only in western New York, where it should be.

Additional errors by Hennessey are:

a. Where did Hagoth put in his "exceedingly large ships" along his neck??? (Buffalo, NY had a natural harbor and pier called Black Rock Pier where Hagoth docked and safely built his boats anciently, just as they did during the Colanial War.)

b. Where are the flat plains to the east of the City of Bountiful? The reason Nephites traveled between the City of Bountiful on the west and the City of Mulek on east is because it says there were plains and that strech was referred to as the Line Bountiful.

c. On another line going east and west, but south of the Line Bountiful was a one-day strech of foritifications. How/why would they do that if it was all mountains as Hennessy's maps shows?

Those are the obvious refutes.

[_Tobin]

This is an exercise in idiocy. If I wanted to be taken seriously in this field by stating the Book of Mormon is based in reality - I'd definitively locate some of the major cities, horse bones, some iron swords and examples of modified Egyptian. They should work on those and not speculate on geography when they haven't even established that the Nephite civilization was even there.

[_DWhitmer]

This is an exercise in idiocy. If I wanted to be taken seriously in this field by stating the Book of Mormon is based in reality - I'd definitively locate some of the major cities, horse bones, some iron swords and examples of modified Egyptian. They should work on those and not speculate on geography when they haven't even established that the Nephite civilization was even there.

Check that canned response at the door; if the key fits, use it - we use it, sorry to disappoint:

"I am persuaded that enough has been said to demonstrate the existence of a vast population, settled in towns, defended by forts, cultivating agriculture, and more advanced in civilization than the nations which have inhabited the same countries since the European discovery." (Governor De Witt Clinton, Memoir on the Antiquities of the Western Parts of the State of New York, 1820, p. 14)

Or:

It has long been known that many evidences of ancient labor and skill are to be found in the western parts of New York and Pennsylvania, upon the upper tributaries of the Ohio, and along the shores of Lakes Erie and Ontario. Here we find a series of ancient earth-works, entrenched hills, and occasional mounds, or tumuli, concerning which history is mute, and the origin of which has been regarded as involved in impenetrable mystery. These remains became a subject of frequent remark, as the tide of emigration flowed westward; and various detached notices of their existence were, from time to time, made public. (E. G. Squier, Aboriginal Monuments of the State of New York, Smithsonian, 1849, pp. 9-10)

Really? Or:

Commencing at the southern shores of the northern lakes [Erie & Ontario] and extending southward a hundred miles or more we find a greater number of military works than in any other section of the United States (Frederick Larkin, M.D., Ancient Man in America, 1888, p. 72)

As for who stole all those expected swords and shields, etc.:

At the Oneida Reservation I saw Louis Dennie, a Frenchman, who was born on the Illinois, and when eighteen came up in the French war with a French officer to fight the Five Nations, and was taken prisoner by the Mohawks, among whom he married. His wife talks Dutch, retains her primitive manners, and is decent and clean. Dennie is upwards of seventy. He appears to be anxious for war, and wishes to engage in it. He is a perfect Indian in dress, manners, and behavior; his color is somewhat whiter. On being asked about the old forts, he says, that from the traditions of old Indians with whom he has conversed, in Canada as well as here, he is of opinion that they were erected by the Spaniards, who first appeared at Oswego, passed into Manlius, and progressed through Onondaga, Pompey, to the lakes, and from thence through the country down the Ohio and disappeared, leaving the country by the Mississippi. That they frightened the Indians by their fire arms, who being thickly settled, were engaged in continual warfare with them and obliged them to fortify. That their object was searching for the precious metals; that they stayed in the country upwards of two years; that the iron instruments of agriculture dug up in various parts of the country, were left by them ; that the Indians being afraid of fire-arms made way for them to pass ; that the Spaniards were very numerous; that there is a large fort in Onondaga, one in Manlius, another in Pompey ; and that they were all over the country. That the first Europeans seen by the Indians were Spaniards ; the next French. He farther states, that the Indians say that they erected many of the forts themselves; but he does not see how they could do it without the use of iron tools. Dennie is not very intelligent ; he prefers the savage life ; his character is good, and what he represents he believes. (WILLIAM W. CAMPBELL, THE LIFE AND WRITINGS OF DE WITT CLINTON, 1849, p. 174)

That should allay the critic...for a while. There's plenty more, let me know.

[_Themis]

This is an exercise in idiocy. If I wanted to be taken seriously in this field by stating the Book of Mormon is based in reality - I'd definitively locate some of the major cities, horse bones, some iron swords and examples of modified Egyptian. They should work on those and not speculate on geography when they haven't even established that the Nephite civilization was even there.

Or maybe that group of people who adapted The Egyptian Gods but were also doing human sacrifices.

[_Tobin]

...

Yes, I know. You believe that the Book of Mormon took place in upstate New York. I don't see what that has to do with Meso-America however? And I would just point out to you that your sources are seriously out of date, lack any specificity, and highly subjective.

[_DWhitmer]

...

Yes, I know. You believe that the Book of Mormon took place in upstate New York. I don't see what that has to do with Meso-America however? And I would just point out to you that your sources are seriously out of date, lack any specificity, and highly subjective.

I would suggest that sources cited were from the unbiased, before it took whole:

"A virulent racism permeated all aspects of America society and culture in the early and mid-nineteenth century and was reflected in both American and European anthropology." (Terry A. Bernhart, Ephraim George Squire and the Development of American Anthropology, 2005, p. 5)

Regarding "what does it have to do with Mesoamerica," I answered a question.

[_Tobin]

...

Again, I have no idea why you believe any of the Book of Mormon took place in New York. Perhaps it is based on the false assumption that the Hill Cumorah is in New York, which it isn't. Neither Joseph Smith nor Moroni referred to it as such and many Mormons have dismissed any notion of the Book of Mormon societies being any where near New York. Certainly Mormon hill has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon other than it was where Moroni buried the plates for Joseph Smith to find. And the location postulated below is in Meso-America. If your idea is there was a continental war or society, that is also ridiculous. The Nephites did not have planes, highways or cars. They walked for the most part everywhere they went.

[_moksha]

Look, if all of this did not happen in Mesoamerica then how did the Mayans come up with the idea of human head soccer?

[_Tobin]

Look, if all of this did not happen in Mesoamerica then how did the Mayans come up with the idea of human head soccer?

Duh, when you don't have a soccer ball, everyone knows that a good head is the second best thing.

[_Drifting]

It's always entertaining to see what those at the BMAF (Book of Mormon Arachaeological Forum) will come up to try and defend their presupposition that all Book of Mormon events took place down in Mesoamerica despite not being able to show how a single land prophecy was fulfilled there.

As if they could surmount the church wide curse of a darkened mind (D&C 84:54), Hennessey gave it an attempt anyway:

With so many scholars over the years trying to place Book of Mormon sites and not being able to, we wonder if we are looking at things correctly. The reality is that if we can place one or two primary landmarks then we may be able to reconstruct the major parts of the geography for the book. (http://www.bmaf.org/node/505)

Wow! Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black! The answers are duh, and duh, but what did Hennessey bring to the table that could possibly surmount the curse? He merely borrowed an idea from Hauck (whose model was reviewed by John Clark) and then placed that idea on a map. Unfortunately, he could not surmount the curse.

To look at things "correctly" one would need to include the four land marks that ALL Mesoapologists ignore: the FOUR SEAS that bordered the Land Northward.

...did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east. (Helaman 3:8)

And the Land Southward was bordered by THREE SEAS:

... thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward. (Alma 22:32)

It's not hard to figure out the layout once the unchangeables, i.e. the seas are identified. I will give Hennessey credit for contradicting ALL Mesoapologists by placing the Narrow Neck along the West Sea! [Not sure if he realizes the ramifications of this?] If the City of Bountiful is next to the Neck, then the City of Bountiful must be along the West Sea. Unfortunately, again, ALL Mesoapologists place the City of Bountiful along the Sea East (contrary to what it says).

[All of which is laid out at the site in my signature.]

Therefore, the layout would be a piece of land in the north surrounded by four seas and one in the south surrounded by three, with a "small" AND "short" neck connecting them on the left. It's that simple. Such a configuration is found only in western New York, where it should be.

Additional errors by Hennessey are:

a. Where did Hagoth put in his "exceedingly large ships" along his neck??? (Buffalo, NY had a natural harbor and pier called Black Rock Pier where Hagoth docked and safely built his boats anciently, just as they did during the Colanial War.)

b. Where are the flat plains to the east of the City of Bountiful? The reason Nephites traveled between the City of Bountiful on the west and the City of Mulek on east is because it says there were plains and that strech was referred to as the Line Bountiful.

c. On another line going east and west, but south of the Line Bountiful was a one-day strech of foritifications. How/why would they do that if it was all mountains as Hennessy's maps shows?

Those are the obvious refutes.

Large land in the North almost surrounded by sea on every side except for a narrow neck of land joining it to the land southward...
Large land in the South almost surrounded by sea on every side except for a narrow neck of land joining it to the land northward...

Haven't you just described the America's?