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Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret.

While we denounce it, we make allowance in such circumstances as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have serious defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. (Gordon B Hinkley)

What bothers me about this is the last part which seems to fly in the face of the Church teaching that the specific purpose for coming to earth is to gain a body.
Shouldn't the baby with serious defects be allowed to be born and gain a body according to LDS doctrine?

I'm not sure why that is a particular issue. The body is there and the child would not survive birthing, but there IS a body.

Drifting wrote:

Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret.

While we denounce it, we make allowance in such circumstances as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have serious defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. (Gordon B Hinkley)

What bothers me about this is the last part which seems to fly in the face of the Church teaching that the specific purpose for coming to earth is to gain a body.
Shouldn't the baby with serious defects be allowed to be born and gain a body according to LDS doctrine?

If the abortion doesn't allow the spirit to get a body wouldn't it just get another body from another pregnancy. As such maybe the church shouldn't be against abortion at all since each spirit is supposed to get a body anyways.

Going back in time, 40 years or so, before the LDS church took a radical swing to the right, a woman in our ward contracted rubella while she was carrying twins. The doctors advised against the births since there was a very high percentage risk that the babies would be deformed. The church administrators gave their blessing to the abortion. My wife, who had herself had an abortion, counselled and comforted the woman with insights into how to move past such a difficult decision.

20 years later my wife and took a shaken baby into our home. The child was born normal and healthy but had sustained such brain damage that the child was now sightless, quadriplegic, epileptic, retarded in growth and brain development to the extent of never being able to understand language or even to be able to eat solid food. Following the death of my wife I continued to care for this child for an additional 12 years on my own. If your interested in numbers, that 35,000 diaper changes, 4500 nights of getting up around 2 a.m. to reposition the child and coax back into slumber, 150 days and nights in hospital, 10 surgeries and countless liftings, holdings and steps maneuvered with a bulky wheelchair.

Anyone who gains knowledge that their unborn child will be born handicapped should weigh the outcomes very seriously. But I totally disagree with "Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret." If there are already older children in the family, be aware that caring for an exceptionally needy child will mean that the older kids will get considerably less attention and time.

bcuzbcuz wrote:Going back in time, 40 years or so, before the LDS church took a radical swing to the right, a woman in our ward contracted rubella while she was carrying twins. The doctors advised against the births since there was a very high percentage risk that the babies would be deformed. The church administrators gave their blessing to the abortion. My wife, who had herself had an abortion, counselled and comforted the woman with insights into how to move past such a difficult decision.

20 years later my wife and took a shaken baby into our home. The child was born normal and healthy but had sustained such brain damage that the child was now sightless, quadriplegic, epileptic, r******* in growth and brain development to the extent of never being able to understand language or even to be able to eat solid food. Following the death of my wife I continued to care for this child for an additional 12 years on my own. If your interested in numbers, that 35,000 diaper changes, 4500 nights of getting up around 2 a.m. to reposition the child and coax back into slumber, 150 days and nights in hospital, 10 surgeries and countless liftings, holdings and steps maneuvered with a bulky wheelchair.

Anyone who gains knowledge that their unborn child will be born handicapped should weigh the outcomes very seriously. But I totally disagree with "Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret." If there are already older children in the family, be aware that caring for an exceptionally needy child will mean that the older kids will get considerably less attention and time.

You sir, have not only my unreserved admiration, but also a seat in heaven at the right hand of Christ. And it will be very plushly padded.

Abortion should be between a mother and her doctors. I'm saddened when a perfectly normal children is aborted out of convienence since there are so many people that wish to adopt children. But again, it is none of the Church's business. It is a decision that should be left to the mother and professional medical advice.

Drifting wrote:You sir, have not only my unreserved admiration, but also a seat in heaven at the right hand of Christ. And it will be very plushly padded.

Thank you for your kind words, although I would trade it all, were it mine to decide, for my foster child to have a restart at life. A shaken baby is a baby robbed of its life.

The countries that have the lowest percentages of shaken babies are the countries with the best pre- and post-natal care. The number of shaken babies rises in a recession. Alcohol but also uncontrolled rage are principle factors. I would rather that a woman have an abortion than a child born into a situation where it could be shaken.

Drifting wrote:What bothers me about this is the last part which seems to fly in the face of the Church teaching that the specific purpose for coming to earth is to gain a body.
Shouldn't the baby with serious defects be allowed to be born and gain a body according to LDS doctrine?

Must a child be delivered to have satisfied the notion of gaining a physical body? Must it even be fully formed and functional to be called a body? People are born less than complete all the time; surely those people have satisfied the body-acquisition requirement. Why wouldn't all aborted fetuses (whether intentionally or naturally) also meet the requirement? Perhaps that's why the LDS church's abortion position is more liberal than other religions. All these aborted fetuses should be guaranteed exaltation, just like other deceased small children.


Also, Gordon's statement of inevitable remorse and regret is just plain wrong. Most women who have undergone an abortion think they made the correct choice. But I suppose that's what comes from living in a cocoon for half your life, surrounded by fawning sycophants who revere you and consider you essentially a demi-god.

I think it is in Freakanomics that they show that the drop in the crime rate is tied to legalized abortions. Women weren’t forced to have children that they didn't want and therefore didn't neglect them etc. They contrasted this with Romania where under the rule of Nicolae Ceaușescu abortion was outlawed and women were forced to have babies they didn't want, didn't take care of them or raise them properly and the crime rate went up. They laid it out better than I just did. It just shows the unintended consequences of some of our laws

Abortion should be free and mandatory for any woman under 15 years of age or when the pregnancy is the result of incest or rape. Contraceptive inserts should be mandatory for all girls who reach puberty up to the age 15 and contraceptives such as pills or spirals available freely for all girls over 15 (especially if they come from religious homes). Poverty and pregnancy are a deadly mix and society should use its collective wisdom to prevent both for all young.