DiscussMormonism.com

Watching a religious leader celebrate a mall may seem surreal, but City Creek reflects the spirit of enterprise that animates modern-day Mormonism. The mall is part of a vast church-owned corporate empire that the Mormon leadership says will help spread its message, increase economic self-reliance, and build the Kingdom of God on earth. “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attends to the total needs of its members,” says Keith B. McMullin, who for 37 years served within the Mormon leadership and now heads a church-owned holding company, Deseret Management Corporation (DMC), an umbrella organization for many of the church’s for-profit businesses. “We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”

McMullin explains that City Creek exists to combat urban blight, not to fill church coffers. “Will there be a return?” he asks rhetorically. “Yes, but so modest that you would never have made such an investment—the real return comes in folks moving back downtown and the revitalization of businesses.” Pausing briefly, he adds with deliberation: “It’s for furthering the aim of the church to make, if you will, bad men good, and good men better.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... make-money

Mormons make up only 1.4 percent of the U.S. population, but the church’s holdings are vast. First among its for-profit enterprises is DMC, which reaps estimated annual revenues of $1.2 billion from six subsidiaries, according to the business information and analysis firm Hoover’s Company Records (DNB). Those subsidiaries run a newspaper, 11 radio stations, a TV station, a publishing and distribution company, a digital media company, a hospitality business, and an insurance business with assets worth $3.3 billion.

AgReserves, another for-profit Mormon umbrella company, together with other church-run agricultural affiliates, reportedly owns roughly 1 million acres in the continental U.S., on which the church has farms, hunting preserves, orchards, and ranches. These include the $1 billion 290,000-acre Deseret Ranches in Florida, which, in addition to keeping 44,000 cows and 1,300 bulls, also has citrus, sod, and timber operations. Outside the U.S., AgReserves operates in Britain, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil. Its Australian property, valued at $61 million in 1997, has estimated annual sales of $276 million, according to Dun & Bradstreet.

Bet you feel good about cleaning those toilets...

--- keeping 44,000 cows and 1,300 bulls ---

until they reach the age 110...

The article seems to confirm:
1. The Church has a paid clergy - all the General Authorities receive a salary.
2. Tithing funds are used to support the for profit businesses as and when additional cash flow is needed.
3. The majority of monies donated worldwide are 'spent' in America.
4. City Creek investment will not turn a profit. Ever.
5. Free of charge volunteers (Missionaries) are used as free labour in the Church's 'for profit' and 'not for profit but commercial' enterprises.

Drifting wrote:The article seems to confirm:
1. The Church has a paid clergy - all the General Authorities receive a salary.
2. Tithing funds are used to support the for profit businesses as and when additional cash flow is needed.
3. The majority of monies donated worldwide are 'spent' in America.
4. City Creek investment will not turn a profit. Ever.
5. Free of charge volunteers (Missionaries) are used as free labour in the Church's 'for profit' and 'not for profit but commercial' enterprises.

once again you are being deceitful, that article says none of what you hope it does.
for example
"...not one penny of tithing goes to the church’s for-profit endeavors"

your characterization of the volunteers is most disingenuous as well.
Anyone reading the article will quickly learn that you are being less than sincere with this post.

subgenius wrote:once again you are being deceitful, that article says none of what you hope it does.
for example
"...not one penny of tithing goes to the church’s for-profit endeavors"

your characterization of the volunteers is most disingenuous as well.
Anyone reading the article will quickly learn that you are being less than sincere with this post.

Amen!!!

ludwigm wrote:--- keeping 44,000 cows and 1,300 bulls ---

until they reach the age 110...

Those must be very tired bulls!

subgenius wrote:

Drifting wrote:The article seems to confirm:
1. The Church has a paid clergy - all the General Authorities receive a salary.
2. Tithing funds are used to support the for profit businesses as and when additional cash flow is needed.
3. The majority of monies donated worldwide are 'spent' in America.
4. City Creek investment will not turn a profit. Ever.
5. Free of charge volunteers (Missionaries) are used as free labour in the Church's 'for profit' and 'not for profit but commercial' enterprises.

once again you are being deceitful, that article says none of what you hope it does.
for example
"...not one penny of tithing goes to the church’s for-profit endeavors"

your characterization of the volunteers is most disingenuous as well.
Anyone reading the article will quickly learn that you are being less than sincere with this post.

The Church's for profit businesses got started somehow. How much tithing money was used to get them going I wonder?

Why does the church even need to be in the for profit businesses anyway? What do they do with the profits?

son of Ishmael wrote:The Church's for profit businesses got started somehow. How much tithing money was used to get them going I wonder?

there is no evidence that "tithing" was used to start any of those. You are speculating based on a personal bias. It could easily be speculated that the businesses were started with private funds and donated to the church.

son of Ishmael wrote:Why does the church even need to be in the for profit businesses anyway? What do they do with the profits?

the most obvious reason is likely regulation. Surplus revenues have to be retained by the non-profit entity, whereas a for profit entity may distribute surplus revenue in a number of ways. Typically this is realized in dividends, but the Church is able to shift revenue to humanitarian causes etc..Additionally, non-profits are typically regulated in how much surplus revenue they can produce over a given amount of time.
Both non-profits and for profits have the ability to pay employees as deemed appropriate, however contracts are usually required within non profits.

Drifting wrote:The article seems to confirm:
1. The Church has a paid clergy - all the General Authorities receive a salary.
2. Tithing funds are used to support the for profit businesses as and when additional cash flow is needed.
3. The majority of monies donated worldwide are 'spent' in America.
4. City Creek investment will not turn a profit. Ever.
5. Free of charge volunteers (Missionaries) are used as free labour in the Church's 'for profit' and 'not for profit but commercial' enterprises.

1. The article confirms all General Authorities receive a salary.
2. The article confirms that when Church businesses struggle for cash flow they can go to the Prophet and get extra cash. If that cash doesn't come from tithing then it comes from the proceeds of tithing.
3. The article confirms that $5 billion is being spent on the City Creek project. City Creek is in America (is it not?). That's FIVE BILLION DOLLARS (4 times the total amount of humanitarian expenditure for the last 25 years) on one project. Then there's the PCC, the hunting reserves, the ranches etc etc all in the US of A.
4. The article confirms that the City Creek project is about urban renewal and not about making a profit. In fact the spokesperson is quoted as saying nobody would entertain the project on a commercial basis.
5. The spokesperson stated that the business's utilised 1400 non paid volunteers (Missionaries). Admittedly, after Church PR vetted the article they got him to issue a retraction to say not all the 1400 were unpaid.

In our Stake members are required to clean the Chapel including the toilets after the janitors were laid off by the Church.
In our Stake the Church does not have funds for social activities and things like EFY. Members have to fund these things in addition to their donations.
In our Stake gardening on Church grounds is done by unpaid volunteers from each ward.
In our Stake members are requested to get involved in indexing records as unpaid volunteers.
In our Stake members are periodically press ganged into volunteering unpaid at Church farming enterprises.

But at least Salt Lake City has somewhere upmarket for people to shop.
As Monson stated at the grand opening..."one, two, three...LET'S GO SHOPPING!"

Drifting wrote:
In our Stake members are required to clean the Chapel including the toilets after the janitors were laid off by the Church.
In our Stake the Church does not have funds for social activities and things like EFY. Members have to fund these things in addition to their donations.
In our Stake gardening on Church grounds is done by unpaid volunteers from each ward.
In our Stake members are requested to get involved in indexing records as unpaid volunteers.
In our Stake members are periodically press ganged into volunteering unpaid at Church farming enterprises.

But at least Salt Lake City has somewhere upmarket for people to shop.
As Monson stated at the grand opening..."one, two, three...LET'S GO SHOPPING!"

Hi Drift! Serious question. Why do they stay?

I'm a nevermo, so I don't really understand the draw to that church. What forces people to make that kind of sacrifice? Why bother?