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The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:01 am
by _Dcharle
"We don't know who discovered water, but we know it wasn't the fish"
(Marshall McLuhan - Canadian Communication theorist, Educator, Writer and Social Reformer, 1911-1980)

The above quote by McLuhan would apply to many of the faithful within the LDS church regarding the subject of Mormon history. Just like a fish that can't see the water it's swimming in, we often cannot see the world around us. It takes someone with a different perspective, someone outside our hardened, well warn paradigm to point out our blind spots. Remember, our perception is our reality, it’s the world we live in, we often are not able to see our own learning opportunities, ironically, because we are living and staring at them every day. Once we allow ourselves to become immersed in the environmental muse, filled with people with similar thinking, it becomes extremely difficult to see the world around us, or discern if your belief system is rational and well thought-out able to withstand scrutiny, or are we merely adhering to the powerful influences of tradition and cultural conditioning. It is very difficult to break out of a well warn paradigm once fully ingrained.

There is nothing inspiring about nuance, vagueness, or ambiguity. Firm, confident, resolute, are the adjectives that stimulate the senses, this may explain why Mormon leaders like Bruce R. McConkie and Joseph Feilding Smith were so popular in their day. Mormon history, like history in general is fuzzy, open to interpretation, it can be compared to statistics, you can make them say anything you want. A good example of this is found in a speech given by President Barak Obama, March 15, 2012 wherein he used a famous quote attributed to President Rutherford B. Hayes, the 19th President of the United States (1877–1881) about the telephone:

"One of my predecessors, Rutherford B. Hayes, reportedly said about the telephone, 'It's a great invention, but who would ever want to use one?' (Laughter.) That's why he's not on Mt. Rushmore — (laughter and applause) — because he's looking backward. He's not looking forward. (Applause.) He's explaining why we can't do something, instead of why we can do something ..."


What started out as a great quote in a speech full of confidence and conviction, to energize the masses turned out to be apocryphal, the quote has also been attributed to President Ulysses S. Grant. What history does show is that President Hayes had the first telephone, and first typewriter in the White House, he also had Thomas Edison visit him to demonstrate the phonograph, behaviors you would not expect if he was adverse to technology and innovation.
This is not an indictment of President Obama, it’s an easy mistake anyone could make, it merely shows that despite our desire for history to be inspiring, pep rally material, it’s most often grey and ambiguous. American history is full of such historical myths and narratives that have evolved over time. We want our heroes to be heroes, be dammed with the details!

Mormonism is not exempt from similar historical exaggeration. Many of its sacred narratives are designed with the intent to promote belief rather than accurately depict historical events. This has created a situation where many within the church do not fully understand the history of Joseph Smith, their founding father, or the controversial aspects of his history. Many historical problems in Mormonism have been glossed over, de-emphasized, and in some cases more palatable versions substituted as actual history, creating a divide between the actual event and the authorized narrative. This divide is perpetuated further when church members fail to do the necessary research that is required to gain a full and rich understanding Mormon history. There are many opinions why the church has not fully embrace it’s history, chief among them, in this authors opinion, being correlation and religious zeal, compounded by years of neglect on the subject by church leaders has made this a very complicated issue today. As for the faithful, the amount of heavy lifting required to research and dissect Mormon history is just simply to daunting a task. What some would call the holy trinity of required reading in Mormon history, Quinn, Bushman and Palmer, their three books combined are over 1,150 pages. Most will simply rely on the church authorized materials for their information and will forever remain suspect of the uncorrelated.

This "tree topper" method creates a situation where our knowledge is a "mile wide and an inch deep" and partisan, forming a “perfect storm” for the inevitable faith crisis that accompanies when complete and accurate information is discovered regarding Mormon history. This post is not intended to focus on the psychology behind why the suppression of church history but rather to encourage others to find out what "the rest of the story" is regarding church history, all the data needs to be considered when evaluating the truth claims of the Mormon church. Full activity in the LDS church requires a large economic and time commitment emphasizing the need for full disclosure. Conviction creates commitment.

Much of the information discussed in blogs and posts similar to this one can easily be found in official church literature or scholarly books written by faithful Mormon historians. However, upon hearing it for the first time it will appear fringy and even deceitful to many within the church due to the lack of exposure. Many of the more controversial historical issues found in Mormon history are rarely discussed in a meaningful way by church leadership, CES, or in the correlated instruction manuals. The LDS church places heavy emphasis on traditional Mormon stories that are less ambiguous, and more faith affirming, it's uses history as a faith building foundation when in reality it's history is nuanced and in some cases considerably different than its sacred narratives . This void in scholarship and commentary from official church outlets regarding its own history, and its emphasis on correlated history further perpetuates the gulf between actual history of the church and its sacred narratives. This peculiar dichotomy creates a situation where those outside the church may have a broader understanding of Mormon history than many of its own true believing membership.

A good example of such historical distortion is found in the methods and process of the translation of the Book of Mormon. Consider the portrayal of Joseph Smith in many of the churches sacred narratives and art work that have been used over the last century depict him engaged in the translation process either by himself, or with Oliver Cowdery viewing the plates of gold in deep concentration, as if receiving revelation from God who is conveying to Smith the interpretation of the “reformed Egyptian” characters found on the gold plates. The term often used by the church to describe this translation process as “by the gift and power of God”. Very rarely is much more said beyond this. Anthony Ivins clearly relays the common belief among the faithful in his 1909 CG talk:

“So He gave us the Book of Mormon, containing the fullness of the everlasting Gospel, in its plainness, simplicity and truth. . . . it was a truth that God revealed these things to him; it was a truth that Moroni delivered the plates into his hands; it was a truth that this book was translated by the gift and power of God, through the medium of the Urim and Thummim. Now, we spend a good deal of time trying to determine how that was brought about. What does it matter how it was brought about? It was done by the gift and power of God, that is sufficient for me. It was done by means of the Urim and Thummim-not a new method either of learning the will of the Lord, for the ancients had it. The High Priests in Israel had it, and with it they ascertained the mind and will of the Lord for the guidance of the people; just as with it the Prophet Joseph was able to translate this record.”
(Anthony W. Ivins, Conference Report April 1909, First day Afternoon Session)

The question of many informed Mormons and those outside the church is, why does the actual historical record differ so greatly from what the leaders of the church have been professing for well over a hundred years? If, as Anthony Ivins said, “It was done by means of the Urim and Thummim-not a new method” then why was a new method used?

Why is the “stone-in-hat” method not fully disclosed? Some may say, does it really matter what method Joseph used when translating the Book of Mormon? Honesty and integrity demands that truth be told, why obfuscate, there is no middle ground, cannot truth stand on its own?

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:55 am
by _Drifting
The difficulty the Church faces in now 'coming clean' about its own history etc is that they have no good answer to the question:
Why didn't you tell the truth in the first place?

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:30 pm
by _subgenius
Dcharle wrote:...Why is the “stone-in-hat” method not fully disclosed? Some may say, does it really matter what method Joseph used when translating the Book of Mormon? Honesty and integrity demands that truth be told, why obfuscate, there is no middle ground, cannot truth stand on its own?

yet the evidence clearly contradicts your proposition.
"Seer Stones" is in the scriptures topic guide, the method is noted in Joseph Smith History, and I am not sure i know any member who is not aware of the method....you act as if full disclosure means having t-shirts printed up and having them worn by every member and missionary every day.
You are gnat straining and mole-hill making.

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:28 pm
by _Drifting
subgenius wrote:
Dcharle wrote:...Why is the “stone-in-hat” method not fully disclosed? Some may say, does it really matter what method Joseph used when translating the Book of Mormon? Honesty and integrity demands that truth be told, why obfuscate, there is no middle ground, cannot truth stand on its own?

yet the evidence clearly contradicts your proposition.
"Seer Stones" is in the scriptures topic guide, the method is noted in Joseph Smith History, and I am not sure i know any member who is not aware of the method....you act as if full disclosure means having t-shirts printed up and having them worn by every member and missionary every day.
You are gnat straining and mole-hill making.


Is the stone in th hat method taught in:
Primary
Sunday School
Seminary
Institute
Preach My Gospel
Gospel Principles
Or is it the Urim & Thummim that is exclusively used?

Feel free to quote from the manuals where it is taught...

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:51 pm
by _subgenius
Drifting wrote:Is the stone in th hat method taught in:
Primary
Sunday School
Seminary
Institute
Preach My Gospel
Gospel Principles
Or is it the Urim & Thummim that is exclusively used?

Feel free to quote from the manuals where it is taught...

examples

—“A Peaceful Heart,” Friend, Sep 1974, 7

__Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Twelve Apostles described the process clearly in an Ensign article:
Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat

I can concede that the church does not readily teach the "method" in modern times, but considering the relevance of that method and their focus on actual Book of Mormon content, it is hardly unreasonable. In addition it is, as your ilk exemplifies, often just fodder for criticism and an unnecessary distraction....but please, strain the gnat.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21918

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:00 pm
by _Drifting
subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:Is the stone in th hat method taught in:
Primary
Sunday School
Seminary
Institute
Preach My Gospel
Gospel Principles
Or is it the Urim & Thummim that is exclusively used?

Feel free to quote from the manuals where it is taught...

examples

—“A Peaceful Heart,” Friend, Sep 1974, 7

__Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Twelve Apostles described the process clearly in an Ensign article:
Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat

I can concede that the church does not readily teach the "method" in modern times, but considering the relevance of that method and their focus on actual Book of Mormon content, it is hardly unreasonable. In addition it is, as your ilk exemplifies, often just fodder for criticism and an unnecessary distraction....but please, strain the gnat.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21918


'nuff said...

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:09 pm
by _son of Ishmael
Check out this church owned website and you will see how the church wants to portray him translating the Book of Mormon.

See any seer stones? See a urim and thummin?


http://josephsmith.net/josephsmith/v/in ... xtfmt=tab3

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:44 am
by _Dcharle
subgenius wrote:
Dcharle wrote:...Why is the “stone-in-hat” method not fully disclosed? Some may say, does it really matter what method Joseph used when translating the Book of Mormon? Honesty and integrity demands that truth be told, why obfuscate, there is no middle ground, cannot truth stand on its own?

yet the evidence clearly contradicts your proposition.
"Seer Stones" is in the scriptures topic guide, the method is noted in Joseph Smith History, and I am not sure i know any member who is not aware of the method....you act as if full disclosure means having t-shirts printed up and having them worn by every member and missionary every day.
You are gnat straining and mole-hill making.



Matthew 23:23-24: strain at gnats and swallow camels
Definition: To criticize other people for minor offenses while ignoring major offenses.

What you consider a minor offense is in reality a very import issue when determining the truth claims of the Mormon church. This is not a matter of just leaving out small gnats from the story, these are “material” facts that are needed when evaluating the credibility of Joseph Smith.

Mormons straining at Cola products while swallowing whole hog the Joseph Smith story might be a better example of gnat straining.

There are a few brief mentions of the seerstone translation method, (however not always disclosing the actual stone-in-hat method) so clearly it is known by church leaders just rarely discussed.

• Ensign Jan 1997, pg. 36, Neil Maxwell, By the Gift and Power of God (Stone but no hat is mentioned)
Ensign Jul 1993, pg. 61, Russell Nelson, A Treasured Testament (Stone and hat are mentioned)
• Ensign Jan 1988, pg.6-13, Kenneth Godfrey, A New Prophet and a New Scripture (Stone but no hat is mentioned)
Ensign, Sep 1977 pg. 79, Richard Anderson, By the Gift and Power of God (Stone and hat are mentioned)
• Friend, Sep 1974 pg. 7, A Peaceful Heart, (Stone but no hat is mentioned)


Despite these “few” mentions of the translation process it is still very uncommon for a faithful member to be fully aware of the translation methodology. While seer-stones get some mention now and then, it is still murky, leaving most members aware of these stones but not sure what their purpose was. Incredibly, many within the church remain unaware and suspicious of the “stone-in-hat” method, including the 10th president of the church, Joseph Fielding Smith who said the following:

While the statement has been made by some writers that the Prophet Joseph Smith used a seerstone part of the time in his translating of the record, and information points to the fact that he did have in his possession such a stone, yet there is no authentic statement in the history of the church which states that the use of such a stone was made in that translation. The information is all hearsay, and personally, I do not believe that the stone was used for this purpose. It hardly seems reasonable to suppose that the prophet would substitute something evidently inferior [to the U&T] under these circumstances. It may have been so, but it is so easy for a story of this kind to be circulated due to the fact that the prophet did possess a seerstone, which he may have used for some other purposes.
(Doctrines of Salvation vol.3 pp. 225-226)


So why is it important to fully disclose the "stone-in-hat" method of translation? Their are many answers to this question and much of it depends of the belief paradigm you espouse. However, the straight line connection between Joseph a charlatan gold digger, who was brought up on charges for “glass looking” by a justice of the peace in Bainbridge, New York, in 1826, and then “translator” using the same methods (stone-in-hat) strains credulity. This is almost certainly why the church would rather suppress this embarrassing information. It does not portray Smith is a pious prophet, but rather a nineteenth century wit.

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:48 pm
by _subgenius
Dcharle wrote:Matthew 23:23-24: strain at gnats and swallow camels
Definition: To criticize other people for minor offenses while ignoring major offenses.

What you consider a minor offense is in reality a very import issue when determining the truth claims of the Mormon church. This is not a matter of just leaving out small gnats from the story, these are “material” facts that are needed when evaluating the credibility of Joseph Smith..

why are you evaluating the credibility of Joseph Smith?
Either the Book of Mormon, upon inspection, speaks as the Word of God, as another testament of JC or it does not.
Events in the life and times of Joseph Smith have little bearing on that notion.

If you save someone from choking using the Heimlich maneuver, it matters not if you had a perfect memory of the maneuver, had notes of the maneuver written in the palm of your hand, or had someone whisper it i your ear.....the credibility of the maneuver is the only thing that matters. It matters not if you were a convicted felon, a doctor for poverty stricken children, a banker, or preacher. Perhaps more appropriate you would seemingly want to abolish the Heimlich maneuver because Dr. Heimlich advocated malariotherapy.
So, yes...strain away and heed the fable of the Lion and the gnat (as in my avatar)...while the lion may surely receive cuts, he survives...it is the gnat who suffers his fate in the spider's web.

Re: The Mormon History Enigma

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:32 pm
by _Drifting
subgenius wrote:why are you evaluating the credibility of Joseph Smith?
Either the Book of Mormon, upon inspection, speaks as the Word of God, as another testament of JC or it does not.
Events in the life and times of Joseph Smith have little bearing on that notion.


I can understand you wanting to move the thread away from evaluating the credibility of Joseph Smith as a Prophet. But to use a volume of scripture that Joseph himself never ever used to teach from seems certainly an odd choice to use as a distraction.