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Although we do a lot studying of many scripture sources every day by subject, Frank and I also try to keep up the habit of reading each of the Standard Works from cover to cover. Tonight we started over again on the D&C. I have long felt that the LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church on the earth; because every believer becomes a member of the body of Christ. For years I would share my testimony that I believed the LDS Church was THE True Church. As more and more parts of Truth are revealed to me by the Holy Ghost, my beliefs have evolved, expanded, been adjusted, etc., in accordance with whatever new part of Truth I have received.

I do not think it was a bad thing for me to believe as it is in the LDS Church where I learned to always, always seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost. The oh-so-many experiences I have had with the Holy Ghost have gotten me to where I currently am in my personal journey. The problem which arises from speaking that belief to others was an afront to their own beliefs. In fact, it is one of the first anti-LDS issues that other Christians have a big problem with; and rightly so. As my own faith was growing and my understanding about the Kingdom of God grew, good habits were being instilled in me. Sharing my testimony about Christ, earnest and humble prayer, seeking guidance from the Holy Ghost, studying scripture, etc., are all necessary in a person's development of their relationship with God. Indeed, I have grown precept upon precept, as more and more parts of All Truth have flowed to my spirit from the Spirit.

I think that there will be many active LDS who will not like reading this OP because they may still be in the growing of their beliefs where they think the LDS Church IS the ONLY True church on the earth.

I have actually used the following passage in other posts - but I would focus on different understandings that are contained in it. Tonight was different, though. As we were reading D&C 1 I saw very clearly what I think many LDS do not see at all. Here it is (emphasis is mine):

D&C 1:30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

As I hope you will be able to see, this scripture does NOT say what we have testified. Rather, it states that at the time this revelation was given to Joseph Smith, the LDS Church was the ONLY church with which the Lord was well pleased!! In other words the Lord was not well pleased with other churches; but He never said that all other churches were not true and living upon the face of the whole earth. In fact, by clarifying that He was speaking to the church collectively and not individually, He is telling us that there were individuals with whom He was not well pleased, AS WELL AS individuals with whom He WAS well pleased. I do not believe He was only referring to members of the LDS Church. I believe there were individuals who were members of other true and living churches with whom He was well pleased - even though they belonged to a church with whom He was NOT well pleased.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure He would say the same thing about the LDS Church today; i.e., that He would necessarily say that He is well pleased collectively with her. We would, however, still be numbered among His true and living churches upon the face of the earth. Certainly, there are many, many members with whom He is well pleased; while others, not so much, regardless of which of His true and living churches they belong to. We are, however, a vehicle through which God is able to have necessary ordinances performed for both the living and the dead.

by the way, these physical religious institutions should NOT be confused with the two spiritual churches which have always existed upon the earth; i.e., the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of Satan. While we are still in the flesh making choices which are sometimes good and sometimes evil, we spiritually change who we are serving. If we are serving God, then we are standing in the Church of the Lamb of God. If we are serving Satan (even unintentionally), then we are standing in the church of Satan.

Blessings,

jo

*ahem*

 

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

*ahem*

The Church of Jesus Christ Was Taken from the Earth
•Why was the Church of Jesus Christ removed from the earth shortly after the Savior’s death and Resurrection?
When Jesus lived on the earth, He established His Church, the only true Church. He organized His Church so the truths of the gospel could be taught to all people and the ordinances of the gospel could be administered correctly with authority. Through this organization, Christ could bring the blessings of salvation to mankind.

After the Savior ascended into heaven, men changed the ordinances and doctrines that He and His Apostles had established. Because of apostasy, there was no direct revelation from God. The true Church was no longer on the earth. Men organized different churches that claimed to be true but taught conflicting doctrines. There was much confusion and contention over religion. The Lord had foreseen these conditions of apostasy, saying there would be “a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord. … They shall … seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it” (Amos 8:11–12).

Gospel Principles Manual

*ahem*

I bear testimony that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is, as the Lord declared, the only true and living church upon the face of the earth... Boyd K Packer speaking at General Conference

Let me know if you need any more official rebuttals...

Just from a Biblical history point of view God view God judges His people based on their faith and how well they follow His commandments. The Jews were at times were great and other times not so much. But never as a whole great and never as a whole terrible. So at the time that God said these things that was the case but today we must be judged on today and not yesterday. If we compare the original church which went apostate with the LDS church can we see the similarities in church drift from what Joseph Smith originally set up. I think there are differences. Now we must consider the magnitude of those changes. We must also consider how God sees things. If the church is 99% does God still say it is true? I think not. We have many places in scripture which clearly show how exacting God is when dealing with what He says and what He expects. Now the question must be asked if God changes His church over time. It is my opinion that He does not. So any changes are from men and not from God. So now I have to ask if there are any true churches now on the earth? I have to answer no. So now we are left with relative truth. Which church is the closest to being a true church. Not knowing all churches I can't answer that. There may be small churches which God has set aside. But within what I am aware of I have to say the LDS church is the one that best fits my beliefs. Not perfect but closer than any other that I know of. I think that anyone who expects perfection will have to wait for Jesus to come down and rule directly.

There are churches that teach the top two commandments. In this they are true to God. But can the members as a whole love their fellow men? I have never seen this. But some members can. So can a church be structurally true? I think so. Can some members be true? I think so. So did God ever say that being a member of any church will make you true, no.

Now the real big issue. I believe God did make available a restored Gospel. In this He made available a true church. Did men ever understand and accept the restored gospel? I doubt this very much. So even in the time of Joseph Smith did the members know and understand all of the restored gospel? I don't think so. So were any members 100% in understanding and true? I think not. But can someone be well pleasing to God with a partial understanding? I think so. So can a church contain a true restored Gospel? Yes. Can that church be well pleasing to God? Yes. Are all the members well pleasing to God? I doubt it. Can another church have most of the true gospel? Yes. Can the Holy Ghost lead a person to all truth? Yes. So can a member of another church be true? Yes as led by the Holy Ghost. Is the church of the Lamb of God true? Yes. Does the church of the Lamb of God exist inside and outside of the LDS church? Yes.

Franktalk wrote:lots of words that just repeated what Jo had already posted but which did not answer why the official Church position is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the one and only true Church on earth today

Frank & Jo,

When did you stop believing in the LDS Church and become apostate?

Drifting wrote:Frank & Jo,

When did you stop believing in the LDS Church and become apostate?

When did you become such a jerk? Anyone who takes the perfection of God and places it on man is in error. The church being of man must be wrong is some way. And as time goes by it will drift. Man can not help himself. This does not mean that the scriptures given the church have changed it just means the teaching of the detail and the priority may change. It is up to the members to ask to be led to truth by the Holy Ghost. This was true on day one and just as true today. But man has a history of leaning on other men because it is an easier path. Why study when you can be spoon fed. Why seek the spirit when someone can just tell you what truth is. Anyone with a brain can see this. The church has not drifted into apostasy and the members as a whole are not apostate. But the danger is always there.

Franktalk wrote:

Drifting wrote:Frank & Jo,

When did you stop believing in the LDS Church and become apostate?

When did you become such a jerk? Anyone who takes the perfection of God and places it on man is in error. The church being of man must be wrong is some way. And as time goes by it will drift. Man can not help himself. This does not mean that the scriptures given the church have changed it just means the teaching of the detail and the priority may change. It is up to the members to ask to be led to truth by the Holy Ghost. This was true on day one and just as true today. But man has a history of leaning on other men because it is an easier path. Why study when you can be spoon fed. Why seek the spirit when someone can just tell you what truth is. Anyone with a brain can see this. The church has not drifted into apostasy and the members as a whole are not apostate. But the danger is always there.

So is Elder Packer mistaken when he, as an Apostle states his testimony, that the Church is the only true Church and has had a witness of that truth?

What about those members who stand up once a month declaring that the Holy Spirit has confirmed the very same thing?

Are they all wrong but you are right?

jo1952 wrote:Although we do a lot studying of many scripture sources every day by subject, Frank and I also try to keep up the habit of reading each of the Standard Works from cover to cover. Tonight we started over again on the D&C. I have long felt that the LDS Church is NOT the only "True" church on the earth; because every believer becomes a member of the body of Christ. For years I would share my testimony that I believed the LDS Church was THE True Church. As more and more parts of Truth are revealed to me by the Holy Ghost, my beliefs have evolved, expanded, been adjusted, etc., in accordance with whatever new part of Truth I have received.

To be more accurate, when the LDS church states it is God's one and only true church, they mean in the sense that only it has God's authority. Only the LDS church can provide things like baptisms and healing through priesthood power(Note that I say priesthood power). Only the LDS church has God's prophet and only he can receive revelations pertaining to the world. They are not stating there is not truth outside of the church. Would you agree with these claims of the LDS church?

Drifting wrote:So is Elder Packer mistaken when he, as an Apostle states his testimony, that the Church is the only true Church and has had a witness of that truth?

What about those members who stand up once a month declaring that the Holy Spirit has confirmed the very same thing?

Are they all wrong but you are right?

You are not seeing a thing I said. I said the church has the restored gospel. That makes Packer and everyone else correct. But do we have the correct interpretation of scripture and is it applied as it should be? That is a very different animal. God promised to spread His gospel around the world. He never said all would understand it. It is only through the Holy Ghost that we can obtain God's true message. The Holy Ghost is the witness not scripture.