Be Not Deceived - Prophets are just men

[_Dcharle]

There are many in the Mormon church who still try and defend the many intellectual and historical issues in the church with the “men are not perfect” defense. Gordon Hinkleys GC talk in 1983 is a good example of this:

"We have those critics who appear to wish to cull out of a vast panorama of information those items which demean and belittle some of the men and women of the past who worked so hard in laying the foundation of this great cause. They find readers of their works who seem to delight in picking up these tidbits, and in chewing them over and relishing them. In so doing they are savoring a pickle, rather than eating a delicious and satisfying dinner of several courses. We recognize that our forebears were human. They doubtless made mistakes... But the mistakes were minor, when compared with the marvelous work which they accomplished. To highlight the mistakes and gloss over the greater good is to draw a caricature. Caricatures are amusing, but they are often ugly and dishonest. A man may have a blemish on his cheek and still have a face of beauty and strength, but if the blemish is emphasized unduly in relation to his other features, the portrait is lacking in integrity. There was only one perfect man who ever walked the earth. The Lord has used imperfect people in the process of building his perfect society." (CR October 1983 Priesthood Session, Be Not Deceived, Gordon B. Hinkley, November Ensign, Pg. 46)


It is very clear to me the issues that many thinking people have cannot simply be sluffed off as the “faults of man”. The following are a few examples that are clearly more than weaknesses of the flesh:
1. Joseph’s use of the “stone-in-hat” method to translate the Book of Mormon
2. The Smith family’s involvement in the Occult, which included “stone-in-hat” magical practices to find hidden objects and answers to mystical questions
3. Joseph’s Polyandry and teenage marriages
4. Joseph’s denial of polygamy
5. Anachronisms in the “most correct book on earth” the Book of Mormon
6. Book of Abraham “translation”
7. Kinderhook plates and Greek Psalter
8. History on the Blacks in the church – “revelation” from God or, policy?
9. Talks given like this one, CR April 1939, by Elder George F. Richards called Punishment of Those Not Valiant: “The negro is an unfortunate man. He has been given a black skin. . . I cannot conceive our Father consigning his children to a condition such as that of the negro race, if they had been valiant in the spirit world in that war in heaven”
10. Who are the Lamanites?
11. God actually changed the pigmentation of the American Indians as a curse
12. God made the change in pigmentation so these people would be unattractive to the white people (2 Nephi 5:20-25)
13. No longer sure where the geography of the Book of Mormon took place, was it hemispheric or geographic?
14. Multiple contradicting “first visions”
15. Many key elements of the temple endowment copied from 1700 English Freemasonry
16. Isaiah in the Book of Mormon from the wrong time period
17. President John Taylor and others preaching statements like this one “the one-wife system degenerates the human family, both physically and intellectually”
18. The suppression and white-washing of Mormon history
19. Is the Book of Mormon just a compilation Ethan Smith’s View of the Hebrews, Joseph Sr’s dreams, Bible passages, and general belief of the day that the Indians had Jewish origins
20. DNA and the Native American’s
21. The church changing the title page from stating that the Native Americans are the “primary” ancestors of the Lamanites to “one of” the ancestors


Yet there are still many who suspend logic and reason for religious belief and agree with Pres. Joseph F. Smith that this is the work of God:

The hand of the Lord may not be visible to all. There may be many who can not discern the workings of God's will in the progress and development of this great latter-day work, but there are those who see in every hour and in every moment of the existence of the Church, from its beginning until now, the overruling, almighty hand of Him who sent His Only Begotten Son to the world to become a sacrifice for the sin of the world. . . (CR April 1904, First Day-Morning Session, President Joseph F. Smith)


Really? Is this how God works?

[_Fence Sitter]

Really? Is this how God works?

I suppose a similar list could be made using references from the Bible.

[_Dcharle]

Yes, for sure. However the trick bag Mormonism gets put in is with their exclusive truth claims and authority to speak for God in its pure, uncorrupted form. The Bible has revisionist and has been tampered with.

[_bcspace]

It's always been taught that the prophets are just men.

[Guest]

ldsfaqs: pipes up.

"Hhhum... What he is saying is that Prophets are JUST men, you are twisting the words.

JUST= 1. Honorable and fair in one's dealings and actions: a just ruler.
2. Consistent with what is morally right; righteous: a just cause.
3. Properly due or merited: just deserts.
4. Law Valid within the law; lawful: just claims.
5. Suitable or proper in nature; fitting: a just touch of solemnity.
6. Based on fact or sound reason; well-founded: a just appraisal.

[_Tobin]

It's always been taught that the prophets are just men.

I think most Mormons believe this, so again - what is the big deal Dcharle?!?

[_Themis]

19. Is the Book of Mormon just a compilation Ethan Smith’s View of the Hebrews

Not really. While there are many similarities that cannot be dismissed, it should be obvious Joseph or company did not copy from his work, but that they share some of the same sources. I find it hard to believe Ethan's fictional story is going to have so many parts similar to the Book of Mormon story of a supposed people no one could really know about at this time. Ethan's work also predates the Book of Mormon.

[_Dcharle]

It's always been taught that the prophets are just men.

I think most Mormons believe this, so again - what is the big deal Dcharle?!?

The issue here is that the items listed are not speaking about the human fragility of men. I completely agree with Paul that "all men sin and fall short of the glory of God". However the historical issues surrounding Joseph and the church he started are not speaking about small blemishes or human errors. The following are what I would consider examples of true prophets displaying their humanity:

GENESIS 9:21 Noah was intoxicated with fermented wine from his vineyard.
GENESIS 17:17 Abraham laughed at the Lord when He told Abraham that his wife will have a child.
JOSHUA 10:12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD...Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon...(It appears that Joshua believes in a false notion that the sun rotates around the earth.)
PS. 109:2-3;6-12 David prays that his enemies will be cursed - should he not pray for their forgiveness?
JONAH 1:1-17 Jonah disobeyed God and tried to flee to Tarshish, but was swallowed by a large fish.
JOHN 18:15-27 Peter lies and denies knowing Jesus, not once but three times.
ACTS 15:39 Paul and Silas argue amongst themselves.
1 COR. 7:7 Paul boasts over his righteousness.


Prophets sin, they are not perfect, I am not expecting them to be. The issues I listed in my original post are with Joseph Smith and his activities that speak of fraud – these are not just the shortcomings of a man.

[_Drifting]

It's always been taught that the prophets are just men.

I think most Mormons believe this, so again - what is the big deal Dcharle?!?

Tobin, remind us again which religion you're an adherent of...

As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we are blessed to be led by living prophets—inspired men called to speak for the Lord, as did Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Paul, Nephi, Mormon, and other prophets of the scriptures. We sustain the President of the Church as prophet, seer, and revelator—the only person on the earth who receives revelation to guide the entire Church. We also sustain the counselors in the First Presidency and the members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators.

Additional Information
Like the prophets of old, prophets today testify of Jesus Christ and teach His gospel. They make known God's will and true character. They speak boldly and clearly, denouncing sin and warning of its consequences. At times, they may be inspired to prophesy of future events for our benefit.

We can always trust the living prophets. Their teachings reflect the will of the Lord, who declared: “What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same” (D&C 1:38).

Our greatest safety lies in strictly following the word of the Lord given through His prophets, particularly the current President of the Church. The Lord warns that those who ignore the words of the living prophets will fall (see D&C 1:14-16). He promises great blessings to those who follow the President of the Church:

“Thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;

http://www.LDS.org/topics/prophets?lang=eng

Perhaps the next time you are on the verge of pronouncing what the Church stance is on any given subject, you will pause and consider checking on LDS.org first...