What are the rules for gay Mormons?

[_GoForBroke]

My post is based on my following assumptions:

Current Mormon policy/doctrine is such that it is not a sin to be gay (ie sexually attracted to the same sex).
It is a sin to have sex outside of marriage
gays can't get married in the temple so it is impossible for a gay person to entertain their sexual attraction in the LDS church via temple marriage.
Heterosexual couples married civilly (not in the temple) can be sexual active and not be in sin.

If the above is true, then I have the following questions.

When gay marriage laws legalize within a certain area, does that mean gay people that marry within the jurisdiction of that law can be sexually active with their married partner similar to a heterosexual couple can and still hold a valid temple recommend?
And adversely, in areas where gay marriage is not recognized, can a gay Mormon date a same sex "friend" and still hold a valid temple recommend? Assuming kissing, cuddling, hand holding,"Book of Mormon" spaced slow dances and nothing that violates the "standard for youth" booklet activities were participated?

by the way, I'm only interested in official policy or doctrine. I don't care about "frowned upon".

[Guest]

From Mormon Newsroom interview with Elder Oaks

ELDER OAKS: Yes, homosexual feelings are controllable. Perhaps there is an inclination or susceptibility to such feelings that is a reality for some and not a reality for others. But out of such susceptibilities come feelings, and feelings are controllable. If we cater to the feelings, they increase the power of the temptation. If we yield to the temptation, we have committed sinful behavior. That pattern is the same for a person that covets someone else’s property and has a strong temptation to steal. It’s the same for a person that develops a taste for alcohol. It’s the same for a person that is born with a ‘short fuse,’ as we would say of a susceptibility to anger. If they let that susceptibility remain uncontrolled, it becomes a feeling of anger, and a feeling of anger can yield to behavior that is sinful and illegal.

[_Drifting]

Under the heading 'Homosexuality' on LDS.org

"People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians. My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign , Nov. 1998, 71).

Additional Information
“We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign , Nov. 1998, 71).

[Guest]

My post is based on my following assumptions:

Current Mormon policy/doctrine is such that it is not a sin to be gay (ie sexually attracted to the same sex).
Same sex attraction and Homosexuality are two different things, According to the church, if you are SUFFERING from the sexual perversion or mental illness known as 'same sex attraction', then STOP and get it fixed! see a councilor or shrink, but only one approved by the church, as the others will tell you to be yourself and don't get caught in the mental minefield that is Mormonism, it is your choice, you choose to feel attracted to the same sex through exercising your free agency, there is no GAY gene and people aren't born GAY.

If you choose to be GAY or in a same sex partnership you cannot be Mormon.

It is a sin to have sex outside of marriage
Or even thinking about sex with someone is like doing it for REAL.
gays can't get married in the temple so it is impossible for a gay person to entertain their sexual attraction in the LDS church via temple marriage.
No, you cannot be actively indulging in Homosexuality of any form Titillation, Mutual Masturbation, Oral sex and BUGGERY and be Mormon, FULL STOP!
Heterosexual couples married civilly (not in the temple) can be sexual active and not be in sin.
CORRECT.

If the above is true, then I have the following questions.

When gay marriage laws legalize within a certain area, does that mean gay people that marry within the jurisdiction of that law can be sexually active with their married partner similar to a heterosexual couple can and still hold a valid temple recommend?
And adversely, in areas where gay marriage is not recognized, can a gay Mormon date a same sex "friend" and still hold a valid temple recommend? Assuming kissing, cuddling, hand holding,"Book of Mormon" spaced slow dances and nothing that violates the "standard for youth" booklet activities were participated?

by the way, I'm only interested in official policy or doctrine. I don't care about "frowned upon".
There is no official policy on this yet! But I bet God is getting ready to send a Tsunami somewhere because of it. Jenn Kamp! God doesn't do that kind of thing ANYMORE.

[_subgenius]

My post is based on my following assumptions:

Current Mormon policy/doctrine is such that it is not a sin to be gay (ie sexually attracted to the same sex).
It is a sin to have sex outside of marriage
gays can't get married in the temple so it is impossible for a gay person to entertain their sexual attraction in the LDS church via temple marriage.
Heterosexual couples married civilly (not in the temple) can be sexual active and not be in sin.

If the above is true, then I have the following questions.

they are not accurate.

When gay marriage laws legalize within a certain area, does that mean gay people that marry within the jurisdiction of that law can be sexually active with their married partner similar to a heterosexual couple can and still hold a valid temple recommend?

No, "gay marriage" is not equivalent to, nor a valid form of, "marriage" within church doctrine.

And adversely, in areas where gay marriage is not recognized, can a gay Mormon date a same sex "friend" and still hold a valid temple recommend? Assuming kissing, cuddling, hand holding,"Book of Mormon" spaced slow dances and nothing that violates the "standard for youth" booklet activities were participated?

Homosexual "activity" is not condoned by church doctrine.

by the way, I'm only interested in official policy or doctrine. I don't care about "frowned upon".

As per Drifting's posts...the matter is quite clear.

There is no theological, biological, nor philosophical reasoning that justifies or supports homosexuality as a valid activity in modern human societies.

[_PrickKicker]

Did you see this discussion it's on a related topic.?
http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25651

[_just me]

Here is a thread about the double standard for gay Mormons.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... ard+gay%Second Amendment

[_subgenius]

Here is a thread about the double standard for gay Mormons.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... ard+gay%Second Amendment

it is not a double standard...simply one standard.
You infer that homosexual couples are equal, at any level, to heterosexual couples...and that has not been proven to date - especially within Mormon Doctrine, let alone society at large.

[_just me]

Here is a thread about the double standard for gay Mormons.

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... ard+gay%Second Amendment

it is not a double standard...simply one standard.
You infer that homosexual couples are equal, at any level, to heterosexual couples...and that has not been proven to date - especially within Mormon Doctrine, let alone society at large.

Thanks for once again proving my point. Double standards abound!

[_GoForBroke]

This seems to be the most respectable reply.

My post is based on my following assumptions:

Current Mormon policy/doctrine is such that it is not a sin to be gay (ie sexually attracted to the same sex).
It is a sin to have sex outside of marriage
gays can't get married in the temple so it is impossible for a gay person to entertain their sexual attraction in the LDS church via temple marriage.
Heterosexual couples married civilly (not in the temple) can be sexual active and not be in sin.

If the above is true, then I have the following questions.

they are not accurate.

Please advise which statements are false and correct accordingly.

When gay marriage laws legalize within a certain area, does that mean gay people that marry within the jurisdiction of that law can be sexually active with their married partner similar to a heterosexual couple can and still hold a valid temple recommend?

No, "gay marriage" is not equivalent to, nor a valid form of, "marriage" within church doctrine.

Fantastic, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Please show me where I can read about gay marriage being "not equivalent to, nor a form of, "marriage" within church doctrine", because I don't think that it exists; and typically, if the church doesn't have an official stance on something, the member uses his discretion.

And adversely, in areas where gay marriage is not recognized, can a gay Mormon date a same sex "friend" and still hold a valid temple recommend? Assuming kissing, cuddling, hand holding,"Book of Mormon" spaced slow dances and nothing that violates the "standard for youth" booklet activities were participated?

Homosexual "activity" is not condoned by church doctrine.

Absolutely true, however; like I said. I'm not interested in "frowned upon". I'm only interested in explicitly forbidden.

by the way, I'm only interested in official policy or doctrine. I don't care about "frowned upon".

As per Drifting's posts...the matter is quite clear.

I'm quite familiar with the opinion shared by the late Gordon Hinckley on the matter, but I argue that he doesn't address married gays. He says

If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church... then....

The moral standards of the Church and the law of chastity require "no sex outside marriage". Hinckley also makes reference to "immoral activity", again; a reference to sex outside marriage. If you think he's talking about something else, it becomes a point of debate as he doesn't explicitly say. Also, there is nothing in the priesthood manuals, standard works or strength for youth that explicitly state that gay married Mormons can't party.

There is no theological, biological, nor philosophical reasoning that justifies or supports homosexuality as a valid activity in modern human societies.

hmm...you cast a wide net with this one. You went "all in". I like your style. However, I'm not really looking for justification for homosexuality. I'm looking for something concrete that a Bishop can use to council a married gay Mormon when he pulls him into his office and has the following conversation.
Bishop: You can't do what you're doing. It's immoral.
Gay: It is? I thought only sex outside of marriage was a sin?
Bishop: That obviously only applies to heterosexual marriage.
Gay: Can you please show me in Church literature where it says that sex inside marriage is only pure and sacred for heterosexual couples?
Bishop: Huh? But you will never have a temple marriage! Your civil union is only until death!
Gay: Maybe. Do you think any black people in the 70s had faith that a temple marriage might happen for them? I might wait for the "revelation" pin to drop. Never say "never" eh?
Bishop: ...