DiscussMormonism.com

This is an extract from John Dehlin's survey on why people are leaving the Church:

http://www.whymormonsquestion.org/wp-co ... 2012-1.pdf

http://news.hjnews.com/news/article_d4c ... f887a.html

General Factors Contributing to Disbelief
% Who Rated this as a Major* Factor
I ceased to believe in the church's doctrine/theology 74%
I studied church history and lost my belief 70%
I lost faith in Joseph Smith 70%
I lost faith in the Book of Mormon 65%
I lost confidence in the general authorities 50%
Church's stance on women 47%
Church's stance on homosexuals / Prop 8 48%
Church's stance on race issues (blacks, native Americans, etc.) 43%
I did not feel spiritually edified at church 47%
Church's stance on science-related matters 40%
I became bothered by church culture (e.g. politics, etc.) 33%
I re-evaluted what it means to believe/know 38%
I lost confidence in my local church leadership 24%
I lost my faith in God 27%
I lost my faith in Jesus 26%
I did not receive the promised spiritual witness 21%
I received a spiritual witness to leave the church and go elsewhere 12%
Lack of meaningful friendships within the church 6%
I or someone I loved was abused by someone in the church. 7%
I wanted to engage in behaviors viewed as sinful by the church 4%
I was offended by someone in the church. 4%

It appears to me that the Church is busy trying to fix things at the bottom of this list whilst ignoring the things at the top of this list. In other words, the Church Leadership is totally out of touch with the members.

Or, to put it another way, they are busy ignoring the top-of-the-list things that they cannot fix because they are unfixable.

I don't see them doing such a great job with most of the items towards the bottom of the list either:

- I did not receive the promised spiritual witness - solution: pray harder, obey better, keep paying

- Lack of meaningful friendships within the church - solution: we assign "friends" to you - what more do you want?

- I wanted to engage in behaviors viewed as sinful by the church - solution: just stop the things we don't approve of, then pray harder, obey better, keep paying

- I was offended by someone in the church - solution: leaders tell members to be more kind (perhaps be like the ones who come here from the "other" board - you know who I mean) - this might actually do some good

seems like the survey results could have been simplified to:
1. I left because i am weak minded intellectually and my character is such that i can only appreciate the path of least resistance because i figure self-indulgence is just a better way...i'm just here for "a good time!"

subgenius wrote:seems like the survey results could have been simplified to:
1. I left because i am weak minded intellectually and my character is such that i can only appreciate the path of least resistance because i figure self-indulgence is just a better way...I'm just here for "a good time!"

How many Elders registered in your Quorum don't show up on Sundays and have you surveyed them as to why?

Or do you just assume they are all weak minded lazy party boys?

Drifting wrote:This is an extract from John Dehlin's survey on why people are leaving the Church:

http://www.whymormonsquestion.org/wp-co ... 2012-1.pdf

http://news.hjnews.com/news/article_d4c ... f887a.html

General Factors Contributing to Disbelief
% Who Rated this as a Major* Factor
I ceased to believe in the church's doctrine/theology 74%
I studied church history and lost my belief 70%
I lost faith in Joseph Smith 70%
I lost faith in the Book of Mormon 65%
I lost confidence in the general authorities 50%
Church's stance on women 47%
Church's stance on homosexuals / Prop 8 48%
Church's stance on race issues (blacks, native Americans, etc.) 43%
I did not feel spiritually edified at church 47%
Church's stance on science-related matters 40%
I became bothered by church culture (e.g. politics, etc.) 33%
I re-evaluted what it means to believe/know 38%
I lost confidence in my local church leadership 24%
I lost my faith in God 27%
I lost my faith in Jesus 26%
I did not receive the promised spiritual witness 21%
I received a spiritual witness to leave the church and go elsewhere 12%
Lack of meaningful friendships within the church 6%
I or someone I loved was abused by someone in the church. 7%
I wanted to engage in behaviors viewed as sinful by the church 4%
I was offended by someone in the church. 4%

It appears to me that the Church is busy trying to fix things at the bottom of this list whilst ignoring the things at the top of this list. In other words, the Church Leadership is totally out of touch with the members.

The issue is, if Mormons fixed the problems at the top of the list, they'd be Baptist or Mennonite or Independant Fundamentalists.

LittleNipper wrote:The issue is, if Mormons fixed the problems at the top of the list, they'd be Baptist or Mennonite or Independant Fundamentalists.

If you carry on like this I may have to take you off 'ignore'....

LittleNipper wrote:The issue is, if Mormons fixed the problems at the top of the list, they'd be Baptist or Mennonite or Independant Fundamentalists.

which Baptist are you referring to?
-Southern Baptist Convention
-Independent Baptist in the Evangelical Tradition
-Baptist Missionary Association
-Free Will Baptist
-General Association of Regular Baptists
-Baptist denomination in the Evangelical Tradition
?

"This is the third straight year the Yearbook has noted a loss in membership for Southern Baptists, which until recently reported decades of uninterrupted growth."

"Not all faith groups are as intentional about numbers. Historically African-American groups like the 5 million-member National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.; 3.5 million-member National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.; and 2.5 million-member National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, estimate membership instead of doing actual head counts. Each of those groups reported no change this year."

"if you have 200 in attendance on Sunday morning, you likely have 500-600 or even more on your roll. Many churches have an even worse record."

"Every denomination has grown, plateaued and drifted into decline. "

"Roman Catholics, the nation's largest Christian denomination, grew 1.49 percernt to 68 million members. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from 1.71 percent to 5.8 million members and the Assemblies of God grew 1.27 percent to 2.8 million members.
The Southern Baptists, though, registered their second straight year of losses as being down .24 percent to 16.2 million." - 2010 Washington Times, and today we see the SBC fall below 16 million
http://www.ncccusa.org/news/110210yearbook2011.html

Nipper you may have been hanging around Drifting too much...you are starting to "just figures" what sounds right and then assume it to be true.

subgenius wrote:

LittleNipper wrote:The issue is, if Mormons fixed the problems at the top of the list, they'd be Baptist or Mennonite or Independant Fundamentalists.

which Baptist are you referring to?
-Southern Baptist Convention
-Independent Baptist in the Evangelical Tradition
-Baptist Missionary Association
-Free Will Baptist
-General Association of Regular Baptists
-Baptist denomination in the Evangelical Tradition
?

"This is the third straight year the Yearbook has noted a loss in membership for Southern Baptists, which until recently reported decades of uninterrupted growth."

"Not all faith groups are as intentional about numbers. Historically African-American groups like the 5 million-member National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.; 3.5 million-member National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.; and 2.5 million-member National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, estimate membership instead of doing actual head counts. Each of those groups reported no change this year."

"if you have 200 in attendance on Sunday morning, you likely have 500-600 or even more on your roll. Many churches have an even worse record."

"Every denomination has grown, plateaued and drifted into decline. "

"Roman Catholics, the nation's largest Christian denomination, grew 1.49 percernt to 68 million members. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from 1.71 percent to 5.8 million members and the Assemblies of God grew 1.27 percent to 2.8 million members.
The Southern Baptists, though, registered their second straight year of losses as being down .24 percent to 16.2 million." - 2010 Washington Times, and today we see the SBC fall below 16 million
http://www.ncccusa.org/news/110210yearbook2011.html

Nipper you may have been hanging around Drifting too much...you are starting to "just figures" what sounds right and then assume it to be true.

Independant Fundamentalist Baptists of course. Christians are not so hung-up on particular churches or denominations. They go where they are fed and that may change as they mature in their walk with Christ. The church doesn't save anyone. The Church is the body of ALL believers in Christ. This is why I'm rather sure Mr. Joseph Smith was never a saved individual ----among other things. He had church membership figured all wrong. His demons got the better of him...

LittleNipper wrote:Independant Fundamentalist Baptists of course. Christians are not so hung-up on particular churches or denominations. They go where they are fed and that may change as they mature in their walk with Christ. The church doesn't save anyone. The Church is the body of ALL believers in Christ. This is why I'm rather sure Mr. Joseph Smith was never a saved individual ----among other things. He had church membership figured all wrong. His demons got the better of him...

me thinks you confuse "mature in their walk" with meandering and browsing.
The path is strait and the gate is narrow.
Enjoy your buffet of drive-thru churches and a-la-carte doctrines.

LN, I think you are right in the way Christians view denominations as not being the important element and I believe this outlook is growing even more with the younger generation who are not locked into a particular church or denomination the way their parents might have been. Critics of the Christian church do get it partly right...the path is straight and the gate narrow... but not in terms of which part of the body one chooses to fellowship with but because Christ Jesus is himself the straight path and the narrow gate.