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I am new here--having trouble figuring how to post and navigate.
I stumbled onto some posts re Anthon Transcript (AT) and would like to comment.
I am CofChrist/RLDS and have translated the AT. Here are a few things I have found.
It reads right to left. The AT script was derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics but was NOT written in the oral language of Egyptian, but was based on the oral grammatical structure of the Hebrew language. It is NOT an alphabetic script (with sounds that combine to form words) but is a logographic script which carries meaning--thus the message is NOT in the specific sound of a particular word, but in the meaning that is associated with it. There are only 20 basic characters, but they are combined in many different arrangements to vary the specific meaning of each character. The meaning of each of the 20 characters carries through the Hebrew spoken language, the Egyptian hieroglyphic script and the English translation.
The script is a form of shorthand, but all forms of shorthand can use only a few basic shapes (curves, lines of various lengths and directions, etc.). Thus all modern shorthand systems will have some similarities to some of the the 20 basic CT characters.
I do not call it the Anthon Transcript because Anthon was an unbeliever--I am not. I call it the Caractors Transcript (CT) for the spelling as it appears at the top of the original document which I have carefully compared with published forms. This is NOT related to the Hofmann forgery of the Anthon Transcript of 1980.
The first part of the message was written by Mormon (the first 4 lines) while the last part (3 lines) was written by Moroni.
Its content is similar to the Title Page of the Book of Mormon and it was that similarity that led me to the translation. But, the CT has MUCH more content than the Title Page of the Book of Mormon. As it was written and later copied by Joseph Smith Jr, the CT was intended by Mormon and Moroni to be the Title Page of the Book of Mormon as Mormon originally arranged it. The translation of the CT version of the Title Page was lost when Harris lost 216 pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript.
One can see some of my work on that translation on the web site reocities.com/bbbinil.
That web site is old and the translation shown at that site will be slightly different from the way I would word it today, based on new insights received over the last 10 years. But the basic message has not changed.
The CT is a testimony to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God and that it was a gift by the power of God to his covenant people.
Address any personal questions to bbbinmd@juno.com
Blair Bryant

bbbinmd wrote:It reads right to left. The AT script was derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics but was NOT written in the oral language of Egyptian, but was based on the oral grammatical structure of the Hebrew language. It is NOT an alphabetic script (with sounds that combine to form words) but is a logographic script which carries meaning--thus the message is NOT in the specific sound of a particular word, but in the meaning that is associated with it.
...
Blair Bryant

You are welcome here.


______________________________________
Then, please translate this for me:

[#img] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _rovas.gif[#/img]

As a result of unfortunate misunderstandings, I can not insert pictures.
You can show it with quoting me without #s - and Your translation.

Regards
ludwigm

ludwigm wrote:

bbbinmd wrote:It reads right to left. The AT script was derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics but was NOT written in the oral language of Egyptian, but was based on the oral grammatical structure of the Hebrew language. It is NOT an alphabetic script (with sounds that combine to form words) but is a logographic script which carries meaning--thus the message is NOT in the specific sound of a particular word, but in the meaning that is associated with it.
...
Blair Bryant

You are welcome here.


______________________________________
Then, please translate this for me:



As a result of unfortunate misunderstandings, I can not insert pictures.
You can show it with quoting me without #s - and Your translation.

Regards
ludwigm

Here you go Ludwigm

Hi, Ludwig. I cannot translate that. I am not a linguist. I got to the translation by being guided to the meaning of about 10 separate words and the general meaning of four strings of text. I could not have translated it if it had been in an alphabetic format. Your characters appear to be alphabetic and related to proto-Hebraic script, a forerunner of today's Hebrew script.

Blair
But I cannot translate Hebrew, either. Sorry.

ludwigm wrote:

bbbinmd wrote:It reads right to left. The AT script was derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics but was NOT written in the oral language of Egyptian, but was based on the oral grammatical structure of the Hebrew language. It is NOT an alphabetic script (with sounds that combine to form words) but is a logographic script which carries meaning--thus the message is NOT in the specific sound of a particular word, but in the meaning that is associated with it.
...
Blair Bryant

You are welcome here.


______________________________________
Then, please translate this for me:

[#img] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _rovas.gif[#/img]

As a result of unfortunate misunderstandings, I can not insert pictures.
You can show it with quoting me without #s - and Your translation.

Regards
ludwigm

Are you making a "the smiths did it" joke, ludwig? I would have asked for a translation of something from the Voynich manuscript...

Blixa wrote:Are you making a "the smiths did it" joke, ludwig?

Was it woman's intuition - or a little help of Google God?

The English translation: "(This) was written in the 1501st year of our Lord. The smiths Matthias, John (and) Stephen did (this). Master Matthias (and) Master Gergely did [uninterpretable]"

An example from Old Hungarian alphabet...

by the way Old Hungarian has been provisionally assigned the Unicode range U+10C80..10CFF

I am unaware of anyone that is able to read the Anthon Transcript. I've seen any number of theories from it being gobbledygook that Joseph Smith just made up to copies of cyrillic, celtic, and other characters.

My view is that Lehi was a tradesman and used the trade languages of Northern Egypt. Since Egypt was one of the military/economic superpowers of that time, the use of Egyptian Hieroglyphics by a number of different people of that period was common and they did not necessarily speak Egyptian. Much like the Koreans and Japanese used Chinese Characters or western Europeans use Latin Characters.

However, by itself, the Anthon Transcript is not proof of anything. There is no translation known and no attempt to state what it was derived from was ever presented by Joseph Smith or the Lord. I believe it was made for Martin Harri's benefit only. The Lord instead does not rely on such "proof" of his word, instead asking the reader to seek him and he will manifest the truth of it to you personally.

ludwigm wrote:

Blixa wrote:Are you making a "the smiths did it" joke, ludwig?

Was it woman's intuition - or a little help of Google God?

The English translation: "(This) was written in the 1501st year of our Lord. The smiths Matthias, John (and) Stephen did (this). Master Matthias (and) Master Gergely did [uninterpretable]"

An example from Old Hungarian alphabet...

by the way Old Hungarian has been provisionally assigned the Unicode range U+10C80..10CFF

I admit, it was Google.

I wasn't sure where those runes were from, but I thought I remembered that there was some Magyar or early Magyar use of runes (where I picked this up, I don't know. Something from when I adored Franz Liszt and read his musings on Hungarian culture and myths? Something from when I studied Anglo Saxon and Gaelic and read Tolkien? Who knows at this point). I figured I would find some Hungarian connection since you posted it.

So I did an Google image search and found a discussion with a translation. That it was translated as an introduction to something written by some "smiths" made me laugh.

Google translate can't do Magyar runes (yet). Good thing I found that discussion.

I understand your skepticisms. If it had not happened to me, I would be reluctant to believe it as well. But it DID happen. I WAS given those insights within a period of about 3 hours. Those 10 words and general meanings of 4 areas have held solid for 18 years now. By great personal effort and accompanied by a gentle guiding Spirit, I managed to determine the heart of the message by 1997. Continued study confirmed earlier work and improved minor details of the translation of specific areas. This resulted in improved general understanding, but the basic message has not changed. For those of you who are willing to study with me in spite of your skepticism, I CAN show you how to interpret the second line. It would take us about 2 hours IF you will stay with me as I show you how the ancient Egyptian characters were used to convey meaning to the Nephites. Of course, if you insist on just poking fun at what I am talking about, you will not spend that 2 hours with me because you believe 'it cannot possibly be, therefore it is not true' and you will believe it is not worth your time and effort to try.
This invitation to spend 2 hours with me will hold only if you can invest that time with an open mind.
As for why Egyptian?--Remember Joseph of Egypt? He was second in command only to the King of Egypt. Manasseh was Joseph's first-born son by his Egyptian wife, Asenath. Asenath was the daughter of Potiphar who purchased Joseph as a slave. Joseph's sons would have been taught in the royal harem where all royalty boys were trained to read and write in Egyptian. Manasseh would have been one of the very small minority of readers and writers who lived in Egypt at that time. The Book of Mormon tells us that the Nephites were descendants of Manasseh and Laban (who kept the record for HIS tribe (Manasseh) when Lehi left Jerusalem--it was a record on brass plates and its content was similar to that we know today from the tribe of Judah--the Jews==the Bible) was a descendant of Manasseh. The Israelites did not become slaves in Egypt until 'there arose a Pharaoh who knew not Joseph'--probably about 200 years after Jacob went down into Egypt. Each tribe kept its own genealogy and records. Egyptian was a logical starting point for the writing method, but the Israelites kept their Canaanite language of Hebrew. The Caractors (Anthon) Transcript has 5 DIFFERENT ways of identifying the Hebrew Language. If you want, I can tell you what those five ways were.
I freely make the offer to teach YOU how to read those characters, but you will have to go into that study with an open mind. ('A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.' Ben Franklin). I will show you HOW the Egyptian characters' meanings were conveyed in the Hebrew language, but in the 'reformed Egyptian' Nephite script--IF YOU CAN TAKE IT without trying to make a game of it.
Blair And that is my real name. I am not a phony and do not hide behind a phony handle.

Well, I'm a skeptic unless you claim you to have an U&T or otherwise were taught the language.

If you can clearly and concisely explain the script then I'll be interested. However, you'll need to provide a substantial amount of background information for me to be able to make sense of any explanation. I don't think this is something you can just pick up and explain without a device like the U&T or that kind of background and specialized knowledge. If you can explain how you can understand the script otherwise, then so be it. But as I said, I'm very dubious and your explanation and analysis will have to be substantive.