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Genesis 37: 26
So Judah said to his brothers, “What profit is there if we kill our brother and conceal his blood?
27: Come and let us sell him to the Ishmaelites, and let not our hand be upon him, for he is our brother and our flesh.” And his brothers listened.
Then Midianite traders passed by; so the brothers pulled Joseph up and lifted him out of the pit, and sold him to the Ishmaelites for twenty shekels of silver. And they took Joseph to Egypt.

[ Judah instigates the selling of his brother into a life time of slavery ]

Gen 38:
13: And it was told Tamar, saying, “Look, your father-in-law is going up to Timnah to shear his sheep.”
So she took off her widow’s garments, covered herself with a veil and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place which was on the way to Timnah; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given to him as a wife.
When Judah saw her, he thought she was a harlot, because she had covered her face.
Then he turned to her by the way, and said, “Please let me come in to you”; for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law. So she said, “What will you give me, that you may come in to me?”
And he said, “I will send a young goat from the flock.” So she said, “Will you give me a pledge till you send it?”
Then he said, “What pledge shall I give you?” So she said, “Your signet and cord, and your staff that is in your hand.” Then he gave them to her, and went in to her, and she conceived by him.
So she arose and went away, and laid aside her veil and put on the garments of her widowhood.
And Judah sent the young goat by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman’s hand, but he did not find her.
Then he asked the men of that place, saying, “Where is the harlot who was openly by the roadside?” And they said, “There was no harlot in this place.”
So he returned to Judah and said, “I cannot find her. Also, the men of the place said there was no harlot in this place.”
Then Judah said, “Let her take them for herself, lest we be shamed; for I sent this young goat and you have not found her.”
And it came to pass, about three months after, that Judah was told, saying, “Tamar your daughter-in-law has played the harlot; furthermore she is with child by harlotry.” So Judah said, “Bring her out and let her be burned!”
When she was brought out, she sent to her father-in-law, saying, “By the man to whom these belong, I am with child.” And she said, “Please determine whose these are—the signet and cord, and staff.”
So Judah acknowledged them and said, “She has been more righteous than I, because I did not give her to Shelah my son.” And he never knew her again.

[ Judah has incest with his daughter-in-law ] thinking it was a prostitute

Gen 44:
For your servant became surety for the lad to my father, saying, ‘If I do not bring him back to you, then I shall bear the blame before my father forever.’
Now therefore, please let your servant remain instead of the lad as a slave to my lord, and let the lad go up with his brothers.
For how shall I go up to my father if the lad is not with me, lest perhaps I see the evil that would come upon my father?”

[ Here Judah has a change of heart and wants to be the slave rather than Benjamin ]


Genesis 49
“Judah, you are he whom your brothers shall praise; Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; Your father’s children shall bow down before you.
Judah is a lion’s whelp; From the prey, my son, you have gone up. He bows down, he lies down as a lion; And as a lion, who shall rouse him?
The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes; And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.

[ Here Judah is promised the Messiah “ anointed One “ will be of his seed ]


Very good example of God’s Grace on a man who sold his brother into slavery, lied to his Father,
And Had sex with a prostitute, plus all the sins we aren’t told

Mormons would not think Judah could be saved by his Faith Alone


Col 1:27
To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.

The Whole Message on line, rather than notes

http://www.newheights.org/current-teaching-series/


Some of the Songs We sang

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMz5_...oC7vELV34ZNQ2A


http://youtu.be/ADDF-bz6Zys

http://youtu.be/lAK9afTHmbk

Mittens wrote:Very good example of God’s Grace on a man who sold his brother into slavery, lied to his Father,
And Had sex with a prostitute, plus all the sins we aren’t told

Mormons would not think Judah could be saved by his Faith Alone

And your utter bigotry and ignorance shows through like a shiny rainbow of multi-colored blood.

Judah changed his HEART AND ACTIONS..... There was no "faith alone" there.
There is no such thing as "faith alone". Faith is an action word.

Your version of faith alone means a person just believes and does nothing that shows his faith and keeps sinning while pretending to believe. That's faith being alone. True faith is a change of heart AND actions. Judah by his actions and words made himself the slave, instead of another. That's NOT "faith alone" missy.....

Repent and stop bearing false witness of Mormonism and the Gospel of Christ.

ldsfaqs wrote:

Mittens wrote:Very good example of God’s Grace on a man who sold his brother into slavery, lied to his Father,
And Had sex with a prostitute, plus all the sins we aren’t told

Mormons would not think Judah could be saved by his Faith Alone

And your utter bigotry and ignorance shows through like a shiny rainbow of multi-colored blood.

Judah changed his HEART AND ACTIONS..... There was no "faith alone" there.
There is no such thing as "faith alone". Faith is an action word.

Your version of faith alone means a person just believes and does nothing that shows his faith and keeps sinning while pretending to believe. That's faith being alone. True faith is a change of heart AND actions. Judah by his actions and words made himself the slave, instead of another. That's NOT "faith alone" missy.....

Repent and stop bearing false witness of Mormonism and the Gospel of Christ.

I realize Mormons are a Works related religion , just like Islam, Buddest, Judaism and all other religion thinking there good works will help them. Christianity is the only religion that says Jesus did our works for us.


This Video explains

http://youtu.be/XrLzYw6ULYw

And you, ldsfaqs, are guilty of a willful and bigoted misrepresentation of Christian faith. Faith is indeed a word of action but to suggest that Christians believe, as you appear to do, that a simple profession of faith is just a doorway for Christians to engage in a sinful life makes you a kettle calling the pot black. Evidently you learned little while you were "participating" in Christian churches before you became a Mormon: Christians follow the very clear Biblical teaching that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ. The demonstration of that saving grace is a life lived in faith to good deeds. Christians do not do good works to be come saved, they do good works because they are saved and the spirit works through them to glorify Christ in their actions. If a person claims salvation in Christ and their lives exhibit no demonstration of that saving grace and sin rules, it would be fair to assume that such salvation did not take place at all.

Albion, I'm well aware of what you teach. My statement was simply an obvious exageration with a point behind it. Further, what you teach is against the scripture, for you give away your agency, no different than agency is given away to satan.

Christ's Gospel actually empowers and works with a mans own will, so his will also becomes our will. Further, your version ignores the Bible scriptures which state that even those who don't know Christ, but seek the light are also his.

Grace comes only to those who in heart and action are seeking and doing the light. It's not a one time event and then forever your fruits serve Christ and you are STILL "saved". This is what people like you forget (those who engage in bigotry and lies against other believers), is that God is not going to be pleased by your fruits against his other children not with you Matthew 18 Mark 9 Luke 9. You can think you are such a wonderful "christian", are "saved", but it will avail you nothing, just as Christ said that it would be better you drown yourself than offend his other children.

Further, I'm still waiting for you all to address how you have misrepresented and lied about Mormonism in this thread, as I've shown.

13 ¶But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

There is nothing here about "grace" saving you, for grace is a GIFT of God. It is our FRUITS which save or damn us. As well, as Christ said elsewhere, fruits without a heart toward the light also will avail us nothing.

Mormonism teaches the TRUE Gospel of Christ, for it is Faith AND Works which saves, not Faith alone or grace alone that you believe, that is a false doctrine.

Oh, and let me get something else straight..... You're the one here attacking my faith, so I'm going to defend it. And guess what, that's going to including where you go wrong, just as Christ and the Apostles did when defending their faith.

ldsfaqs, your post speaks volumes but I would like you to clarify one point for me. An example, please, of a lie I have made about Mormon doctrine. You may disagree with my opinion of Mormonism but I refute your charge that I have "lied" about Mormon doctrine or belief. Many Mormons, it seems to me, resort to personal attacks when their beliefs are challenged so...where have I lied?