Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

[_Bazooka]

21st December 2012

PROCLAMATION FOR TRUTH

To the First Presidency & Quorum of Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We, as members of said Church, give this our Proclamation:

Let it be known that we twelve members of the Church represent many thousands of other members all over the world who are honest, faithful & sincere. We, in good conscience, have served faithfully in the Church giving much of our time, talents & financial resources to build up the Church, believing it to be the Kingdom of God on earth. Many of us have served faithfully with all our hearts, might, mind & strength all our lives.

WHEREAS, we believe in honesty & integrity, we expect God’s Kingdom on earth to be led by God’s authorised servants who epitomise these same values in their leadership. Yet we find it is not so. We find instead that loyalty & obedience is valued more highly by them than integrity to the truth.

WHEREAS, we believe in truth, we expect the Church of the One True God to be built on truth. We expect no pretence, nor corruption, only honesty & openness, having nothing to hide, displaying a willingness & desire to declare all the facts in a full & frank disclosure. Yet we find an unwillingness to discuss difficult areas of Church history, with the excuse that some aspects of Church history are not faith promoting.

WHEREAS, we expect that when the Church claims to be “The One and Only True Church of Jesus Christ on the face of the whole earth”, we expect the Church bases this claim on facts which are true & verifiable. There should be no truth claim which under the ‘full light of day’ is proven to be otherwise. Yet we find many of the truth claims to be based not on substantive facts, but on an altered narrative crucially lacking in historical accuracy, with uncomfortable, yet context altering details suspiciously ignored, even hidden from the membership.

WHEREAS, we have been perpetually taught that the divine authority of God had been established through the restoration of the Holy Priesthood with the calling of Prophets & Apostles, therefore we trusted that God would lead & direct his servants. It followed that when prophets, seers & revelators, addressed us under inspiration, their words would be the mind & will of God. We were assured that God would never let them lead the Church astray. Yet we find many failed or changed prophetic pronouncements of the past suspiciously declared as “folklore” & just “personal opinion”.

WHEREAS, many faithful members are seekers after truth & desperate to receive honest, full & frank answers to their sincere questions, we find that instead of being assisted, they are ignored at best, or at worst ostracized for simply wanting to know the full facts about the origins of their Church. In most cases Stake Presidents & Bishops are ill-equipped to answer their questions.

Brother Chris Ralph from the UK recently sent two Open Letters to the Europe Area Presidency with vital questions which needed to be answered in order for the authority of the Church to continue to be justified in its claim to be of divine origin. The Open Letters were sent to the Europe Area Presidency in August and October and as of now remain not only unresolved, but without response. As a group of twelve concerned members we also sent a letter to the Area Presidency on the 3rd December pleading for a response. We have received no response.

Therefore, we APPEAL to the highest authority of the Church for answers to these vital questions. Brethren your response to these questions will not only show sincere concern, but could potentially resolve the painful religious trauma syndrome many members suffer from as a result of the cognitive dissonance they face as they encounter historical facts completely in contradiction with the story told them by the Church. We can attest that the pain we and many, many others are experiencing upon discovering that our faith is not based on truth, is an emotion akin to feeling like we have been deceived by those we respect & love.

Brethren, we DECLARE this day, the 21st December 2012, that without a formal public pronouncement of the answers to these crucial questions in a full, frank & honest manner, that you as leaders of this Church be held responsible for the continued wilful deception of many millions of faithful Church members. The Church membership needs its leaders to show integrity, humility & absolute honesty if this Church is to continue to provide the sense of purpose & security which the faithful members deserve.

Belief in a fanciful lie, no matter how consoling, is a damnable false hope. The Church can continue to provide security & meaning for its followers, but only if it is based on truth. Please consider your positions of trust & have the integrity we all hope you have by telling us the truth we need to hear, rather than just hoping we will all just go away. We will not go away, and there are thousands of others also ready to speak as we do. Truth will win out in the end, we hope you have the courage to follow that truth no matter where it may lead.

We affirm to you that humility, honesty, integrity & authenticity is a far greater & more rewarding path to follow than blind obedience & meaningless loyalty can ever be.

Yours faithfully

Martha Bache
David Bloor
Steve Bloor
Jeremy Brown
Lisa Campbell
Pip Chapman
Damian Mitchell
Tim Morgan
Tom Phillips
Sophia Ralph
Ted Ralph
Ken Smith

[_ZelphtheGreat]

If the brethren respond to his they give it credibility. As it is they ignore it and most members will never hear or know of it. Does not matter that it comes from members who are looking to increase their faith and belief or from anyone else, ignoring it keeps it hidden as far as they are concerned.(as their PR firms keep telling them)

Acknowledgement brings it out in the open. The light of day is what they do not want.

[_bcspace]

Why won't the Church Authorities respond to this....?

Then sent Bazooka his servant zeezrom unto me in like manner the fifth time with an open letter in his hand;

Wherein was written, It is reported among the heathen, and Sethbag saith it, that thou and the Jews think to rebel: for which cause thou buildest the wall, that thou mayest be their king, according to these words.

And I said, there are no such things done as thou sayest, but thou feignest them out of thine own heart.

For they all made us afraid, saying, Their hands shall be weakened from the work, that it be not done. Now therefore, O God, strengthen my hands.

That Bazooka and Dr. Shades sent unto me, saying, Come, let us meet together in some one of the villages in the plain of Ono. But they thought to do me mischief.

And I sent messengers unto them, saying, I am doing a great work, so that I cannot come down: why should the work cease, whilst I leave it, and come down to you?

And, lo, I perceived that God had not sent zeezrom; but that he pronounced this prophecy against me: for Bazooka and Dr. Shades had hired him.

Therefore was zeezrom hired, that I should be afraid, and do so, and sin, and that they might have matter for an evil report, that they might reproach me.

So the wall was finished in the twenty and fifth day of the month Elul, in fifty and two days.

And it came to pass, that when all our enemies heard thereof, and all the heathen that were about us saw these things, they were much cast down in their own eyes: for they perceived that this work was wrought of our God.

.
.
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Of course, any number of names could have been substituted in.....

[_ZelphtheGreat]

bc space, you are an embarassment to LDS everywhere.

[_bcspace]

Not according to my fan mail. But notice how my use of scripture accurately answered the thread's title question.

[_Bhodi]

21st December 2012

PROCLAMATION FOR TRUTH

To the First Presidency & Quorum of Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We, as members of said Church, give this our Proclamation:

Let it be known that we twelve members of the Church represent many thousands of other members all over the world who are honest, faithful & sincere. We, in good conscience, have served faithfully in the Church giving much of our time, talents & financial resources to build up the Church, believing it to be the Kingdom of God on earth. Many of us have served faithfully with all our hearts, might, mind & strength all our lives.

WHEREAS, we believe in honesty & integrity, we expect God’s Kingdom on earth to be led by God’s authorised servants who epitomise these same values in their leadership. Yet we find it is not so. We find instead that loyalty & obedience is valued more highly by them than integrity to the truth.

WHEREAS, we believe in truth, we expect the Church of the One True God to be built on truth. We expect no pretence, nor corruption, only honesty & openness, having nothing to hide, displaying a willingness & desire to declare all the facts in a full & frank disclosure. Yet we find an unwillingness to discuss difficult areas of Church history, with the excuse that some aspects of Church history are not faith promoting.

WHEREAS, we expect that when the Church claims to be “The One and Only True Church of Jesus Christ on the face of the whole earth”, we expect the Church bases this claim on facts which are true & verifiable. There should be no truth claim which under the ‘full light of day’ is proven to be otherwise. Yet we find many of the truth claims to be based not on substantive facts, but on an altered narrative crucially lacking in historical accuracy, with uncomfortable, yet context altering details suspiciously ignored, even hidden from the membership.

WHEREAS, we have been perpetually taught that the divine authority of God had been established through the restoration of the Holy Priesthood with the calling of Prophets & Apostles, therefore we trusted that God would lead & direct his servants. It followed that when prophets, seers & revelators, addressed us under inspiration, their words would be the mind & will of God. We were assured that God would never let them lead the Church astray. Yet we find many failed or changed prophetic pronouncements of the past suspiciously declared as “folklore” & just “personal opinion”.

WHEREAS, many faithful members are seekers after truth & desperate to receive honest, full & frank answers to their sincere questions, we find that instead of being assisted, they are ignored at best, or at worst ostracized for simply wanting to know the full facts about the origins of their Church. In most cases Stake Presidents & Bishops are ill-equipped to answer their questions.

Brother Chris Ralph from the UK recently sent two Open Letters to the Europe Area Presidency with vital questions which needed to be answered in order for the authority of the Church to continue to be justified in its claim to be of divine origin. The Open Letters were sent to the Europe Area Presidency in August and October and as of now remain not only unresolved, but without response. As a group of twelve concerned members we also sent a letter to the Area Presidency on the 3rd December pleading for a response. We have received no response.

Therefore, we APPEAL to the highest authority of the Church for answers to these vital questions. Brethren your response to these questions will not only show sincere concern, but could potentially resolve the painful religious trauma syndrome many members suffer from as a result of the cognitive dissonance they face as they encounter historical facts completely in contradiction with the story told them by the Church. We can attest that the pain we and many, many others are experiencing upon discovering that our faith is not based on truth, is an emotion akin to feeling like we have been deceived by those we respect & love.

Brethren, we DECLARE this day, the 21st December 2012, that without a formal public pronouncement of the answers to these crucial questions in a full, frank & honest manner, that you as leaders of this Church be held responsible for the continued wilful deception of many millions of faithful Church members. The Church membership needs its leaders to show integrity, humility & absolute honesty if this Church is to continue to provide the sense of purpose & security which the faithful members deserve.

Belief in a fanciful lie, no matter how consoling, is a damnable false hope. The Church can continue to provide security & meaning for its followers, but only if it is based on truth. Please consider your positions of trust & have the integrity we all hope you have by telling us the truth we need to hear, rather than just hoping we will all just go away. We will not go away, and there are thousands of others also ready to speak as we do. Truth will win out in the end, we hope you have the courage to follow that truth no matter where it may lead.

We affirm to you that humility, honesty, integrity & authenticity is a far greater & more rewarding path to follow than blind obedience & meaningless loyalty can ever be.

Yours faithfully

Martha Bache
David Bloor
Steve Bloor
Jeremy Brown
Lisa Campbell
Pip Chapman
Damian Mitchell
Tim Morgan
Tom Phillips
Sophia Ralph
Ted Ralph
Ken Smith

What would the point be? Why is this even being asked in the first place?

[_Bazooka]

What would the point be? Why is this even being asked in the first place?

I believe it is being asked because members are troubled that the Church isn't accurate with how it portrays its own history.
The point would be that it needs addressing as the failure to respond either directly or within the programmes of the Church is resulting in, as Jensen stated, "a great apostasy not seen since Kirtland" (I may have paraphrased that quote but the gist of it is accurate).

What does the Church have to gain by not responding or resolving these issues that members have?

[_Bhodi]

I believe it is being asked because members are troubled that the Church isn't accurate with how it portrays its own history.
The point would be that it needs addressing as the failure to respond either directly or within the programmes of the Church is resulting in, as Jensen stated, "a great apostasy not seen since Kirtland" (I may have paraphrased that quote but the gist of it is accurate).

What does the Church have to gain by not responding or resolving these issues that members have?

The petition was silly, and those proposing it ridiculously narcissistic. Anyone should understand that any religion, from Anglicanism to Zoroastrians, presents their history in a positive light. This is just normal. And some people will not be comfortable in a faith understanding this. They are free to leave, and find something more suitable to their beliefs. This is common, and I have told a few people they should not be LDS, it is not for them. Nevertheless, those who believe that they can continue to disbelieve, but force the LDS Church to bend to their individual will are complete narcissists, expecting everyone else to conform to their personal beliefs. What is so interesting is that these individuals want to be individual, believing as they choose, but feel that others do not have this same right expecting their previous institution to bow to their will. If you are not happy being Mormon, by all means, leave, but this pseudo outrage is completely overdone.

[_DrW]

I believe it is being asked because members are troubled that the Church isn't accurate with how it portrays its own history.
The point would be that it needs addressing as the failure to respond either directly or within the programmes of the Church is resulting in, as Jensen stated, "a great apostasy not seen since Kirtland" (I may have paraphrased that quote but the gist of it is accurate).

What does the Church have to gain by not responding or resolving these issues that members have?

The petition was silly, and those proposing it ridiculously narcissistic. Anyone should understand that any religion, from Anglicanism to Zoroastrians, presents their history in a positive light. This is just normal. And some people will not be comfortable in a faith understanding this. They are free to leave, and find something more suitable to their beliefs. This is common, and I have told a few people they should not be LDS, it is not for them. Nevertheless, those who believe that they can continue to disbelieve, but force the LDS Church to bend to their individual will are complete narcissists, expecting everyone else to conform to their personal beliefs. What is so interesting is that these individuals want to be individual, believing as they choose, but feel that others do not have this same right expecting their previous institution to bow to their will. If you are not happy being Mormon, by all means, leave, but this pseudo outrage is completely overdone.

Bhodi,

Please have a look at this award winning video and then come back and tell us how the LDS Church is justified in the lies, deceptions and half truths it publishes for consumption by the faithful.

I doubt that even someone of your hard-over fundamentalist bent can justify the kind of Mopologetic obfuscation and deception brought to light by this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EReUoXIesMI

[_Bhodi]

Bhodi,

Please have a look at this award winning video and then come back and tell us how the LDS Church is justified in the lies, deceptions and half truths it publishes for consumption by the faithful.

I doubt that even someone of your hard-over fundamentalist bent can justify the kind of Mopologetic obfuscation and deception brought to light by this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EReUoXIesMI

I'm not necessarily sure that the Brodie Awards are necessarily that prestigious. I wonder outside of the Mormon critical community who would either know or care, but it is an award in that someone said it was, so I am sure this suffices for you...? I doubt your standards are very high or even existent. Regardless, the OP deals with LDS leadership, your youtube video apologists. The two are not the same. Why are you equating them?

As for religious belief, what is your point? There is little evidence that the Exodus occurred, yet it is the central facet of the Jewish religion, and Jews continue to believe and exist. Some even suspect that the story was allegorical and remain Jewish and devout. Catholics have a very sordid history, yet maintain faith in the Papacy. I do not seem to realize that many, many, many people understand that religion is laced with human imperfections, yet maintain faith regardless, in the face of full comprehension. Your problem seems to be a significant resentment that others find faith where you cannot.

Again you resort to name calling where intellectual practice cannot solve your dilemma. I am LDS. I have been in Bishoprics, hold a valid TR, really like the Temple truth told. I also support same sex marriage, am attending and dues paying member of a Zen Buddhist Sangha, and voted for Barack Obama. I am certainly NOT a fundamentalist, but you NEED to apply the name because otherwise it conflicts with your worldview.

I do not need, or even want your belief to continue with mine. Your opinion does not matter in the slightest, but the mere existence of beliefs that differ from yours is considered a form of insult to you.

Why?

I think you have some significant psychological problems; you should likely stop posting (you plagiarize anyway, what is the point) and really do some serious soul searching.