1831 conference

[_Investigator]

Are there any discrepancies in the eyewitness accounts of the supernatural events reported at the 1831 conference?

[_sleepyhead]

Hello,

Could you tell us what supernatural events took place in 1831 conference.

[_Natsunekko]

Which account is more believable: A) An eye witness account of supernatural events that contains discrepancies, or B) An eye witness account of supernatural events that contains NO discrepancies?

Both accounts are equally improbable...unless you happen to have independent and compelling proof that said supernatural events actually happened, in my opinion.

[Guest]

Which account is more believable: A) An eye witness account of supernatural events that contains discrepancies, or B) An eye witness account of supernatural events that contains NO discrepancies?

Both accounts are equally improbable...unless you happen to have independent and compelling proof that said supernatural events actually happened, in my opinion.

Agreed. And interestingly that is the basic claim of Mormonism. We each should seek these types of experiences. However, I think you'll find what you would call supernatural experiences are nothing of the kind. They have perfectly reasonable explanations behind them. This may not diminish the significance of them if they really occur however.

[_Natsunekko]

Which account is more believable: A) An eye witness account of supernatural events that contains discrepancies, or B) An eye witness account of supernatural events that contains NO discrepancies?

Both accounts are equally improbable...unless you happen to have independent and compelling proof that said supernatural events actually happened, in my opinion.

Agreed. And interestingly that is the basic claim of Mormonism. We each should seek these types of experiences. However, I think you'll find what you would call supernatural experiences and nothing of the kind. They have a perfectly reasonable explanation behind them. This may not diminish their significance of them if they really occur however.

Interesting. So what are your thoughts on the following from a 2006(?) edition of Al Arabiyya?

Men from the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice were surprised to find a naked African sorceress while conducting a raid on one of the dens of “Magic and Sorcery” in Medina. The men reported that they tried to cover the witch but she refused. The biggest surprise for them was when she “flew like a bird” out of the room and disappeared from the apartment leaving the twenty men of the committee in awe. According to the newspaper ‘Ukaz (issued Monday, May 29, 2006), the men of the Committee carried out the raid on Sunday and found more than 20 women in the den as well as the naked African witch. The newspaper said that men continued to search for the “witch” on other floors of the building. They were later surprised to find a man and his children crying out for help. The man reported that “A naked African woman fell from the ceiling in the kids’ room as they slept. The kids woke up scared and started screaming. We all ran away after I was sure she’s a witch.”

[_Tobin]

Interesting. So what are your thoughts on the following from a 2006(?) edition of Al Arabiyya?

Men from the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice were surprised to find a naked African sorceress while conducting a raid on one of the dens of “Magic and Sorcery” in Medina. The men reported that they tried to cover the witch but she refused. The biggest surprise for them was when she “flew like a bird” out of the room and disappeared from the apartment leaving the twenty men of the committee in awe. According to the newspaper ‘Ukaz (issued Monday, May 29, 2006), the men of the Committee carried out the raid on Sunday and found more than 20 women in the den as well as the naked African witch. The newspaper said that men continued to search for the “witch” on other floors of the building. They were later surprised to find a man and his children crying out for help. The man reported that “A naked African woman fell from the ceiling in the kids’ room as they slept. The kids woke up scared and started screaming. We all ran away after I was sure she’s a witch.”

The claims made in the account may have a basis in fact or it may not. Obviously I wasn't there so I have no reason to believe they are true since I have never seen a woman fly like a bird out of a room in my life. If I had, I might be more sympathetic to the claims. Since I have not, it would have to be demonstrated that people are actually able to do such a thing.

[_ludwigm]

I don't know if this thread handles the Jan, Jun, Oct or Nov 1831 conference. I found these accounts.
They inform us about similar events as in the quotes below.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... swaziland/

Witches in Swaziland — where witchcraft is serious business — aren’t cleared to fly their broomsticks higher than 150 meters and violators may be arrested and fined.

The clarification comes from Civil Aviation Authority marketing and corporate affairs director Sabelo Dlamini, reports the Sun, a U.K. tabloid. Witches are still free to fly lower than 150 meters, or about 500 feet, he said.

Toy helicopters and kites are also subject to the airspace limits in the southern Africa country.

The statute came to light when Mr. Dlamini was asked to explain the arrest of a private detective for flying a toy helicopter with a video camera to gather surveillance. He was charged with operating an unregistered aircraft, according to a local news website.

Witches in the country are known to use their brooms to scatter drops of potion — but there have not been any reported instances of witches flying them, the site reported.

http://www.afrik-news.com/article15745.html

A 21 year old woman stunned a court when she claimed she flew 75 miles in a winnowing basket with two witches on a mission to kill her brother-in-law. Her claims where collaborated by a witchcraft expert who told the court that “witches can travel from Zimbabwe to as far as South Africa during the night and fly back as soon as their mission is accomplished”.

In court Regina Sveto, 21 on Friday “hissed like a snake” and “went into a trance” as Sekuru Nelson Jambaya, the vice president of the Zimbabwe National Traditional Healers Association (ZINATHA) testified leaving a packed court room shocked.

All the drama took place at Court 18 at the Harare Magistrates Court where it was jammed to the rafters as court officials, magistrates and lawyers all raced there to watch proceedings in the rather unusual case.

Sveto has pleaded guilty to a charge of public indecency after she was found naked outside her brother-in-law’s house in Highfield suburb just after 6AM on last Sunday.

Sveto was seen by passers-by outside the house wearing “red headgear” and “some black strings around the waist”. She claimed she had “flown” from there from Murehwa, some 120km east of Harare, with her father-in-law and an aunt.

Their winnowing basket aircraft taxied off from a graveyard in Zihute Village under Chief Mangwende — their mission to kill her brother-in-law. Once at the house in Highfield, she claims she balked when asked to kill her brother-in-law. Her father-in-law, named in court as Elias Zemba, and the aunt, Filda Zemba, then took off and abandoned her.

The people didn't change in the last centuries.

There is some progress: the news are propagated by internet, instead of tally-ho

[_Bazooka]

However, I think you'll find what you would call supernatural experiences are nothing of the kind. They have perfectly reasonable explanations behind them.

Tobin, what was the perfectly reasonable explanation behind the supernatural being that appeared in your locked apartment immediately prior to your attempted copulation?

[_Nevo]

Are there any discrepancies in the eyewitness accounts of the supernatural events reported at the 1831 conference?

Yes, there are some discrepancies in the accounts. Scott Kenney showed the various accounts in parallel columns on his now-defunct website, saintswithouthalos.com. You can see an archived version of the page here. It's fascinating stuff.

[_just me]

Were there any accounts written that day or in the day or two following or were the accounts created years later?