Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

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_jordon3
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Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _jordon3 »

As the following quotations show, Mormon leaders, and even Mormon scripture, denounce the Christian faith! Why is it fair for Joseph Smith to say all other churches are "corrupt," yet Christians cannot reply by saying Joseph Smith was in error?

"Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10)

"Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Documentary History of the Church, Introduction, xl)

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)

"We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam's ass told him. They are more ignorant than children." (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).

"The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)

"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

"I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." (Joseph Smith, DHC 1:6)

"I spoke of the impropriety of turning away from the truth, and going after a people so destitute of righteousness as the Methodists." (Joseph Smith, DHC 2:319)

"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)

"...brother Heber C. Kimball was beset by a number of Baptist priests who had been attending a conference. He read them all down out of the New Testament....With regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world." (Brigham Young, JD 8:199).

"The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church, is the great corrupt, ecclesiastical power, represented by great Babylon...." (Orson Pratt, Orson Pratt, Writings of an Apostle, "Divine Authenticity," no.6, p.84).

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels." (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60)

"And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act." (Orson Pratt, OP-WA, "The Kingdom of God," no.2, p.6)

"...all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who recieves baptism or the Lord's supper from their hands will highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt people." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg. 255)

"...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." (Brigham Young, JD 6:176)

"Evil spirits control much of the so-called religious worship in the world; for instance, the great creeds of Christendom were formulated so as to conform to their whispered promptings." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.246)

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christiandom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common orgin. They belong to Babylon." (George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p.324)

Finally, note the views of Mormon Prophet Brigham Young regarding the Christian view of Jesus Christ:

"You may hear the divines of the day extol the character of the Saviour, undertake to exhibit his true character before the people, and give an account of his origin...I have frequently thought of mules, which you know are half horse and half ass, when reflecting upon the representations made by those divines. I have heard sectarian priests undertake to tell the character of the Son of God, and they make him half of one species and half of another, and I could not avoid thinking at once of the mule, which is the most hateful creature that ever was made, I believe. You will excuse me, but I have thus thought many a time" (Journal of Discourses 4:217).
_maklelan
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _maklelan »

Jason15 wrote:As the following quotations show, Mormon leaders, and even Mormon scripture, denounce the Christian faith!


They denounce certain streams within the broad Christian faith. They don't reject Christianity in toto.

Jason15 wrote:Why is it fair for Joseph Smith to say all other churches are "corrupt," yet Christians cannot reply by saying Joseph Smith was in error?


I really don't care if you say Joseph Smith was in error. I care what you tell me what I am and am not allowed to call myself.
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_The Erotic Apologist
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Jason15 wrote:Why is it fair for Joseph Smith to say all other churches are "corrupt," yet Christians cannot reply by saying Joseph Smith was in error?
Well, it's obvious that Joseph Smith was an imperfect man with limited understanding...unlike L. Ron Hubbard.

L. Ron Hubbard got a sneak peak of Heaven when he had an out of body experience while getting a wisdom tooth removed. He said Heaven was an OK place overall but was greatly overrated.


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_jordon3
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _jordon3 »

maklelan wrote:
Jason15 wrote:As the following quotations show, Mormon leaders, and even Mormon scripture, denounce the Christian faith!


They denounce certain streams within the broad Christian faith. They don't reject Christianity in toto.

Jason15 wrote:Why is it fair for Joseph Smith to say all other churches are "corrupt," yet Christians cannot reply by saying Joseph Smith was in error?


I really don't care if you say Joseph Smith was in error. I care what you tell me what I am and am not allowed to call myself.


Are you serious with "they denounce certain streams lol....yes the denounce all essential doctrine which Christians adhere to, which is basically refecting Christianity in toto. Come on man, Christians do not in any way shape or form believe in any of the below. Infact they are directly opposed ALL these beliefs.

First of all, consider what Mormonism teaches. These doctrines are taught by official Mormon writers and contradict Christian truth.

There are many gods throughout the universe, (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 163, McConkie was very high up in the Mormon church and was one of its 12 apostles)
There is a mother goddess (the wife of Elohim, a man who became a god), (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443)
God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321)
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354; Joseph Smith is the founder of Mormonism.)
God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428. The Pearl of Great Price is official Mormon scripture)
The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35)
God is increasing in knowledge, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 120)
God has the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _The Erotic Apologist »

Jason15 wrote:Are you serious with "they denounce certain streams lol....yes the denounce all essential doctrine which Christians adhere to, which is basically refecting Christianity in toto.
You're forgetting (or purposely overlooking) the doctrinal gulf that separates Trinitarian Christians (like you) from primitive Christians.

So maybe you should think about repudiating the Trinity if you want to continue calling yourself a Christian.

Mote...beam...eye...get it?



_________________
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately. I've worked with the Historian's office. Their mandate is to preserve history and make it available to scholars and others, not to write about it. The clerks who work in the department are more clueless on some basic issues of history than I am, and that's not saying much.
--Robert D. Crockett
Surprise, surprise, there is no divine mandate for the Church to discuss and portray its history accurately.
--Yahoo Bot

I pray thee, sir, forgive me for the mess. And whether I shot first, I'll not confess.
--Han Solo, from William Shakespeare's Star Wars
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _sleepyhead »

maklelan wrote:I really don't care if you say Joseph Smith was in error. I care what you tell me what I am and am not allowed to call myself.


Hello maklelan,

I'm a member of the Church of Christ(temple lot). This is one of the many offshoots of the original 1830 church. Should I be allowed to call myself a Mormon? According to a press release of the LDS church I shouldn't be.
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _Tobin »

sleepyhead wrote:
maklelan wrote:I really don't care if you say Joseph Smith was in error. I care what you tell me what I am and am not allowed to call myself.


Hello maklelan,

I'm a member of the Church of Christ(temple lot). This is one of the many offshoots of the original 1830 church. Should I be allowed to call myself a Mormon? According to a press release of the LDS church I shouldn't be.


I won't answer for maklelan, but I don't see any problem with calling yourself a Mormon. The LDS Church doesn't get to make those decisions and I attend the LDS Church myself.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_maklelan
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _maklelan »

sleepyhead wrote:Hello maklelan,

I'm a member of the Church of Christ(temple lot). This is one of the many offshoots of the original 1830 church. Should I be allowed to call myself a Mormon? According to a press release of the LDS church I shouldn't be.


I disagree with the press release, although it's quite clear why they did it.
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _Res Ipsa »

I do think there are some issues here that the LDS church would be wise to address. When I was a missionary, the first thing we taught was the account of the first vision in which God tells Joseph that all Christian churches were an abomination in his sight. Those are pretty strong words. If Mormons really care about whether other churches consider them Christian, then I think they need to officially back away from those words. Unless the LDS church takes the position that a church can be both "Christian" and an "abomination" to god, then substantively the LDS church is claiming it is the only "Christian" church. That really doesn't give Mormons the high ground when complaining that other churches won't consider them Christians.

At the same time, the obsession of some Christians with who should be in the club and who should be out seems, well, not really Christian. Reading the gospels, it doesn't sound like Jesus put any emphasis on these kind of abstract theological questions. He was all about doing things. So it doesn't seem consistent with the records of what Jesus said and did that he would take a person who followed what he actually taught and keep him out of heaven because he got the "does god have a wife" question wrong.

Frankly, if more followers of Jesus spent more time living as he taught them to and less time worrying about whether other people fit the Nicene creed or some other checklist of beliefs, we'd all be better off.
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Re: Why do Mormons want to be called Christian?

Post by _maklelan »

Jason15 wrote:Are you serious with "they denounce certain streams lol....yes the denounce all essential doctrine which Christians adhere to,


Yet again you completely overlook the fact that all Christians, Mormons included, believe Jesus is the Son of God and the Savior of humanity. We believe this is an essential doctrine. Don't you?

Jason15 wrote:which is basically refecting Christianity in toto. Come on man, Christians do not in any way shape or form believe in any of the below. Infact they are directly opposed ALL these beliefs.


This is a non-sequitur. Not a word of my statement is contingent upon mainstream Christians accepting anything you've listed below.

Jason15 wrote:First of all, consider what Mormonism teaches. These doctrines are taught by official Mormon writers


And that is explicitly not what constitutes doctrine in the LDS Church.
Jason15 wrote: and contradict Christian truth.


Again you pretend to speak authoritatively on behalf of all Christianity.

Jason15 wrote:There are many gods throughout the universe, (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 163, McConkie was very high up in the Mormon church and was one of its 12 apostles)
There is a mother goddess (the wife of Elohim, a man who became a god), (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443)
God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321)
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354; Joseph Smith is the founder of Mormonism.)
God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428. The Pearl of Great Price is official Mormon scripture)
The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35)
God is increasing in knowledge, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 120)
God has the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3


So you're not arguing that we disagree on essential doctrines, you're arguing that certain of our doctrines are so bad that they preclude us from being Christian, irrespective of what does overlap. I don't think you're even aware of what you're arguing.
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