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Hi maklelan.

I never fail to be somewhat in awe of the depth and complexity of knowledge and learning that you are able to articulate with regards to theology, religion, scriptural history etc. It is clear that you have studied and retained a magnitude of information, well beyond the scope of other people. By comparison, most Mormons, if not all Mormons, that I know (and I include myself) have only a superficial level of knowledge about similar topics.

1. Do you find that a barrier when discussing things during periods such as Gospel Doctrine class? In that I'm not sure there's a programme in the Church that wouldn't be significantly insulting to your intelligence in its content for discussion.
2. Do you find it challenging to have discussions with others who may well not have your depth of knowledge?
3. Do you know of any General Authorities within the Church that can....is it appropriate to say....compete with your depth of knowledge? I'm assuming very few do, in which case doesn't that restrict their ability to perform as General Authorities?

I'm not trying to blow smoke up your ass, it's just I see your level of knowledge may be problematic to you, to others in the Church and to senior leaders whom you could clearly teach a thing or two about certain topics. I suspect some General Conference talks that show limited knowledge of historical theology etc would have been written differently were you the script writer.

Bazooka wrote:Hi maklelan.

I never fail to be somewhat in awe of the depth and complexity of knowledge and learning that you are able to articulate with regards to theology, religion, scriptural history etc. It is clear that you have studied and retained a magnitude of information, well beyond the scope of other people. By comparison, most Mormons, if not all Mormons, that I know (and I include myself) have only a superficial level of knowledge about similar topics.

1. Do you find that a barrier when discussing things during periods such as Gospel Doctrine class? In that I'm not sure there's a programme in the Church that wouldn't be significantly insulting to your intelligence in its content for discussion.
2. Do you find it challenging to have discussions with others who may well not have your depth of knowledge?
3. Do you know of any General Authorities within the Church that can....is it appropriate to say....compete with your depth of knowledge? I'm assuming very few do, in which case doesn't that restrict their ability to perform as General Authorities?

I'm not trying to blow smoke up your ass, it's just I see your level of knowledge may be problematic to you, to others in the Church and to senior leaders whom you could clearly teach a thing or two about certain topics. I suspect some General Conference talks that show limited knowledge of historical theology etc would have been written differently were you the script writer.

Good questions all! I am similarly curious about those very same questions. I have additional questions for you, maklelan.

1. Do your employers and supervisors at the COB know or care about your participation on this forum?
2. If they forbade your further participation, would you comply?
3. If you were to finally come to doubt that the LDS Church is every thing it claims to be and divinely led, would you hide that doubt from your employers if necessary to retain your job until you can find other gainful and satisfying employment and/or acquire the means and opportunity to complete your PhD?

If you find those questions too personal or intrusive, you are, of course, free to ignore them, and I hope you will forgive me for asking them. Please understand that, like Bazooka, I greatly admire your scholarship and depth of knowledge, and appreciate your willingness to share it with us. I greatly value what I have learned from you!

Bazooka wrote:Hi maklelan.

Hi, Bazooka.

Bazooka wrote:I never fail to be somewhat in awe of the depth and complexity of knowledge and learning that you are able to articulate with regards to theology, religion, scriptural history etc. It is clear that you have studied and retained a magnitude of information, well beyond the scope of other people. By comparison, most Mormons, if not all Mormons, that I know (and I include myself) have only a superficial level of knowledge about similar topics.

I know many Latter-day Saints who are more educated than I am, and more disciplined as well, so while I appreciate the very kind words, I think I should be near the bottom of the list of those kinds of Latter-day Saints.

Bazooka wrote:1. Do you find that a barrier when discussing things during periods such as Gospel Doctrine class? In that I'm not sure there's a programme in the Church that wouldn't be significantly insulting to your intelligence in its content for discussion.

My wife has frequently commented that she could tell I was violently biting my tongue in gospel doctrine class, but we've been teaching the twelve-year-olds for the last couple years, so I haven't been to more than a couple gospel doctrine classes in that time. Although I miss actually discussing the scriptures on an adult level, the youth have been very bright and receptive, and I think I've appreciated them more than the liberal bashing to which I would otherwise be subjected.

The only ward where I felt like I didn't have shackles on when teaching gospel doctrine was the Oxford ward. There were very few students in the ward, but there was a general sense of openness and inquiry that generated a lot of very good and critical discussion. I was directly asked very pointed and challenging questions during class, and I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the discourse.

I have a number of friends and acquaintances out there who are just as well educated and more so in biblical studies, the history of the church, or religion in general who go through the same kinds the things, and I think they find a balance between wanting to be critical and using their education to find genuinely insightful ways to complement and enrich gospel principles.

Bazooka wrote:2. Do you find it challenging to have discussions with others who may well not have your depth of knowledge?

Not usually. As long as a person is open to different possibilities, I am more than happy to adjust my level of discourse. A big part of teaching is the ability to break down complex concepts into manageable portions, and I appreciate the opportunity to practice. As an example, few people understood the title of my first master's thesis, "Anti-anthropomorphism and the Vorlage of LXX Exodus," but I like to think if just about anyone gives me five minutes I can help them understand exactly what it's about in terms they can work with. I presented a pared down version of my thesis to some colleagues at work last year, and they had little trouble grasping it.

Bazooka wrote:3. Do you know of any General Authorities within the Church that can....is it appropriate to say....compete with your depth of knowledge? I'm assuming very few do, in which case doesn't that restrict their ability to perform as General Authorities?

I have met many very intelligent General Authorities who could certainly navigate the field and its contours given the time to familiarize themselves with the primary research. Very few have the time for that kind of study, though. They are primarily concerned with the devotional and pastoral aspect of the scriptures, rather than the academic or historical. I find the latter more interesting, but I'm not in a position where I'm required to dispense the former on a daily basis. I have certainly run into a number of GAs who can quote scripture better than me, even if they can't describe the literary or cultural context well.

Bazooka wrote:I'm not trying to blow smoke up your ass, it's just I see your level of knowledge may be problematic to you, to others in the Church and to senior leaders whom you could clearly teach a thing or two about certain topics. I suspect some General Conference talks that show limited knowledge of historical theology etc would have been written differently were you the script writer.

Yeah, there are certainly things that I would say differently, but the target audience for something like general conference is obviously a big factor. It's a challenge in some ways, and I still have a lot to learn.

Gunnar wrote:Good questions all! I am similarly curious about those very same questions. I have additional questions for you, maklelan.

1. Do your employers and supervisors at the COB know or care about your participation on this forum?

Some of them know about it. No one has expressed any concern yet, and I know some of them have lurked here and elsewhere from time to time, too. I know some of them regularly read my blog, too.

Gunnar wrote:2. If they forbade your further participation, would you comply?

I would welcome it. My participation here is a vice.

Gunnar wrote:3. If you were to finally come to doubt that the LDS Church is every thing it claims to be and divinely led, would you hide that doubt from your employers if necessary to retain your job until you can find other gainful and satisfying employment and/or acquire the means and opportunity to complete your PhD?

Don't know. Haven't thought about it, but it is an interesting and not insignificant question.

Gunnar wrote:If you find those questions too personal or intrusive, you are, of course, free to ignore them, and I hope you will forgive me for asking them. Please understand that, like Bazooka, I greatly admire your scholarship and depth of knowledge, and appreciate your willingness to share it with us. I greatly value what I have learned from you!

I appreciate the kind words.

Thanks, maklelan! I appreciate your rationality, honesty and decency!

Gunnar wrote:Thanks, maklelan! I appreciate your rationality, honesty and decency!

Yes, I add my thanks too.
I think you add a dimension and a not insignificant candour, to the board discussions that very few possibly could.

Gunnar wrote:Thanks, maklelan! I appreciate your rationality, honesty and decency!

Of course!

Bazooka wrote:Yes, I add my thanks too. I think you add a dimension and a not insignificant candour, to the board discussions that very few possibly could.

You're quite welcome.

Mak,

I want to echo what Zook and Gunnar have said and hope you don't mind a further question.

I understand you are considering pursuing a Phd in theology.(Good luck with that by the way, had I the ability and $$$$ and were quite a bit younger, that would be of great interest to me also) I wonder if you knew going in to it, that such a course of study would negatively impact your current religious beliefs, would you still pursue it? Does that possibility concern you?

Fence Sitter wrote:Mak,

I want to echo what Zook and Gunnar have said and hope you don't mind a further question.

I understand you are considering pursuing a Phd in theology.(Good luck with that by the way, had I the ability and $$$$ and were quite a bit younger, that would be of great interest to me also)

Yeah, the money is the big thing for us. I'd already been accepted to two separate PhD programs since beginning graduate school that I just didn't have the money for, including going back to Oxford. That would have been a dream come true, but, alas, it didn't work out. On the plus side, if I did go back, I never would have found my current employment, I wouldn't have been galavanting around the globe for the last year, and I wouldn't be closing on a brand new house next month.

Fence Sitter wrote:I wonder if you knew going in to it, that such a course of study would negatively impact your current religious beliefs, would you still pursue it? Does that possibility concern you?

I was warned about that possibility by multiple people before I even began at BYU, but it honestly doesn't concern me. At this point there is little to nothing to which a PhD will expose me that I haven't already been around for years. I've already written up my prospectus for my doctoral dissertation and have a very good idea of how it's going to look. I've gotten great feedback from the relevant professors and just need to get some funds secured to make it happen (it's a distance PhD, by the way, so I can keep my job).