torture

[_AKA_ME]

would it be possible to have church members pray to God asking Him if condones torture?

he does answer prayers right?

and it is important to get God's opinion is it not?

[_ludwigm]

would it be possible to have church members pray to God asking Him if condones torture?

No.

he does answer prayers right?

No.

and it is important to get God's opinion is it not?

No.

Please watch the upcase initials...

[_Zadok]

Sure...it just depends on how you phrase the question. Try this...

If you're in favor of torture....

Dear God, I am concerned about torture. If you are opposed to torture please let me know, or send me a sign. K. Thks. Me.

If you're opposed to torture....

Dear God, I am opposed to humans torturing other humans. If you disagree, please let me know. K. Thks. Me.

I'm sure you'll get the answer you want!

[_subgenius]

would it be possible to have church members pray to God asking Him if condones torture?

yes, it is possible.

he does answer prayers right?{/quote]
Yes, but not always when and how you may demand.

and it is important to get God's opinion is it not?

Yes, it is important.


any other questions?

[_AKA_ME]

would it be possible to have church members pray to God asking Him if condones torture?

yes, it is possible.

he does answer prayers right?

Yes, but not always when and how you may demand.

and it is important to get God's opinion is it not?

Yes, it is important.

any other questions?

if a person prays asking about the truth of the Book of Mormon...
isn't that demanding when and how God must answer?

what I'm doing is asking church members to the same as they are asking seekers to do. church members obviously will not do this... because they won't get the same answer.

which begs the question, who was He actually talking to?

those that heard "yes" or those who heard "no".

THINKING that one hears God, when actually isn't... can also be applied to praying about the Book of Mormon.

and acknowledging this kills a testimony.

[_subgenius]

if a person prays asking about the truth of the Book of Mormon...
isn't that demanding when and how God must answer?

Not necessarily, I believe the prayer is advised to be done a petition, or as a sincere request....a demand is something altogether different.
Quite often prayer is a challenge to a person's temporal sense of patience.

what I'm doing is asking church members to the same as they are asking seekers to do. church members obviously will not do this... because they won't get the same answer.

I do not follow you here.
The "same answer"? from whom- themselves or God?
I would claim that the answer from God would be the "same" whereas the answer from "man" would see variations.

which begs the question, who was He actually talking to?

those that heard "yes" or those who heard "no".

THINKING that one hears God, when actually isn't... can also be applied to praying about the Book of Mormon.

and acknowledging this kills a testimony.

conversely, and more accurately, this acknowledgement also builds testimonies....for it is more likely that one will realize that only through a subversion of what they "think" or "desire" will they be able to truly "hear" God.
So, while you are correct that "THINKING that one hears God" can lead to folly, that folly is created by a reluctance to be less self-involved - not solely by the realization that one's own ego muffles the sound of God's messages.

[_AKA_ME]

I do not follow you here.
The "same answer"? from whom- themselves or God?
I would claim that the answer from God would be the "same" whereas the answer from "man" would see variations.

I think you are STARTING to see the issue.

we will never know whether the people who hear "yes" were hearing God or themselves.
any more than we can know if people who heard "no" were hearing God or themselves.

innocent people are being tortured to death, as a DIRECT RESULT of the war that God (via Monson) wholeheartedly supports, from a torture handbook written by good church members.

in my view of things, I don't understand how or why church members DON'T sincerely wish to know if God condones torture resulting in death.

take 100 church members who pray asking God if he condones torture, let's say 50 members heard God say YES and 50 members heard God say NO

so then people from each side start meeting together for the purposes of reinforcing confirmation bias.

the only concrete evidence we have is Jessen and Bybee who were paid 80 million out of a 160 million dollar contract to write THEE torture handbook...

with some of this money (10%) ending up in church coffers

if God does not condone torture He shouldn't be accepting money MADE FROM TORTURE.

and then God calls Jessen to be Bishop. so now we have

1. accepting money from the profits of torture
2. promoting the person responsible for defining and conducting torture

a very ambiguous position good people should only naturally wish clarification on.

[_Bazooka]

I like to follow the methodology for prayer (as used by the Prophets when seeking an answer on the Priesthood Ban).

"Dear Heavenly Father, I have decided that torture is wrong and that the perpetrators of torture and the developers of torture methods are to be vilified. If you don't want me to vilify them then give me a sign in the next day or two. Amen."

This is the method used by both President McKay and President Kimball when supplicating to God for an answer about the Priesthood Ban. The only thing that separates them was that each asked a different question, but a confirming silence was the answer they both received.

[Guest]

.

[_Zadok]

I thought this was going to be a discussion on the "3-hour Block." I was wrong.

This is A-zactly what I thought. Not only was I wrong, but also a little disappointed.