Mormons are here to stay

[_moksha]

I think the LDS Church has carved out a niche for itself which is unaffectable by outside influences.

I followed a link from LDS Living tonight that listed the 11 Countries with the greatest Mormon population. From that link, I went to another link of the 11 Countries with the greatest Muslim population. What I noticed was that each of these countries had roughly 10X more Muslims than the entire world has of Mormons.

What does that mean? We are like a brine shrimp in the ocean, but we are a self-perpetuating brine shrimp. Most of the world is Mormon resistant, but we are not of the world. Seems we are closer to Kolob, Twilo or perhaps Ork. Mormons will be Mormons, whether the eternal footman holding our coat snickers at us or not. No sudden tipping point will be reached where we lay down our cards and fold.

[_ludwigm]

Mormons will be Mormons, whether the eternal footman holding our coat snickers at us or not. No sudden tipping point will be reached where we lay down our cards and fold.

Ceeboo wrote something about Request For A MDB Translator...

Anyway I decoded You. (http://www.urbandictionary.com, You know)

My laid cards:
[#img] http://www.poker-rechner.com/assets/ima ... beitet.PNG[/img] -

[_Amore]

About 15,000 LDS members, compared with about 7,000,000,000 world population, the percent is 0.000002 - not a lot.

I think Islam is the fastest growing religion, but I imagine it is because of big families and in some cases polygamy.

I heard - and this is speculative - that the number of active LDS is 1/3, and the number of "full-paying" tithing members is 1/3 of that (1/6). I believe that many are becoming suspicious of how finances are handled, especially after the embarrassing shopping mall built in front of members' noses across from temple square. Maybe church leaders saw the trend of losing money, and that is why they made such a desperately shaming move in spending money gathered in the name of Jesus Christ, to build such a wordly, greedy money-making shopping mall.

My hope involves mixed thoughts/feelings. I love the good aspects of the church - high standards (no smoking, no drinking, no sex before marriage - even if it's unrealistic, FHE, encourages journal-keeping) and the sense of community - everybody helps out, feels needed - loves and feels loved (even if conditional). These are aspects that - as a whole, are not found in other religions, at least that I'm aware of. I don't know any religion that has such a sense of community - and "callings."

Yet, I don't like the cult mentality and approach. Finances and bullying (even just for questioning evil) through "church discipline" is very dysfunctional. These are issues that really screw people over - financially and mentally. No wonder so many members are in huge debt or bankruptcy, and so many suffer from depression.

So, I hope that those who join the cult, take the best and leave the rest - and it seems like maybe that's starting to happen (at least financially).

[_subgenius]

About 15,000 LDS members, compared with about 7,000,000,000 world population, the percent is 0.000002 - not a lot.

I think Islam is the fastest growing religion, but I imagine it is because of big families and in some cases polygamy.

I heard - and this is speculative - that the number of active LDS is 1/3, and the number of "full-paying" tithing members is 1/3 of that (1/6). I believe that many are becoming suspicious of how finances are handled, especially after the embarrassing shopping mall built in front of members' noses across from temple square. Maybe church leaders saw the trend of losing money, and that is why they made such a desperately shaming move in spending money gathered in the name of Jesus Christ, to build such a wordly, greedy money-making shopping mall.

My hope involves mixed thoughts/feelings. I love the good aspects of the church - high standards (no smoking, no drinking, no sex before marriage - even if it's unrealistic, FHE, encourages journal-keeping) and the sense of community - everybody helps out, feels needed - loves and feels loved (even if conditional). These are aspects that - as a whole, are not found in other religions, at least that I'm aware of. I don't know any religion that has such a sense of community - and "callings."

Yet, I don't like the cult mentality and approach. Finances and bullying (even just for questioning evil) through "church discipline" is very dysfunctional. These are issues that really screw people over - financially and mentally. No wonder so many members are in huge debt or bankruptcy, and so many suffer from depression.

So, I hope that those who join the cult, take the best and leave the rest - and it seems like maybe that's starting to happen (at least financially).

two points:

1. 1/3 of 1/3 is 1/9 (multiply denominators not add)
2. Muslims have a law of tithe (Zakah) as well, which is, arguably, strictly enforced...but it comes in at a rate of only 2.5% (paid during Ramadan). Tithing is one of the 5 pillars of Islam.
Charity giving or "sadaqah" is a discretionary amount as long as it set aside (e.g. put in a box) daily and eventually distributed.
The former protects one's wealth and the latter protects one's self and family.
The animosity that most modern Christians have for tithing is peculiar and perhaps a timeless struggle. Which speaks to its purpose. But as for Mormons? perhaps some of it stems from Church administration of funds but I think those people are just looking for an excuse to support their rationalization(s) for not paying their tithe.

Take the best and leave the rest is certainly nice advice but it seems all to often that what is occurring is that the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater.

[_Amore]

Subgenius,
Thanks for correcting my math error - you don't use it, you loose it!
So, it is even less members paying tithes than I had thought.
And I think you are right about throwing the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to many on this forum - and even people who mistakenly think and feel they are hopelessly steeped in sin.

Yet, my hope for myself and those within my sphere of influence, is to help "members" find the middle way. Above all, though, I feel obligated to be loyal to God - not anybody else. And so far, this has meant being bullied by a bishop for not submitting to his idea of imperfection of church leaders. He agrees they are not perfect gods, but cannot allow me to express my concern with their obvious sins (financially) - even when he harasses me, "You didn't answer my question! Answer my question!" What a power-hungry person who should not be in that "calling." Then, he put down my previous bishop for allowing me to participate and serve while he knew I didn't support everything leaders say and do. People who treat others so harshly, make if very difficult to find the middle way.

[_Tsuzuki]

Mormonism is hear to stay, but it's long overdue for a serious schism on par with the succession crisis, and history has shown that Mormonism is affected by outside influences.

[_The CCC]

Mormonism is hear to stay, but it's long overdue for a serious schism on par with the succession crisis, and history has shown that Mormonism is affected by outside influences.

There have been some half a dozen schisms already within Mormonism. All have been very small.

[_AmyJo]

Mormons number in population roughly the same as the Jewish population, worldwide.

App. 15 million Mormons, most inactive. And between 12-13 million Jewish people roughly.

Jews make up less than 1% of the world population. Mormonism must be pretty close to that percentile.

Nonetheless, Mormonism is dying off. Whereas Judaism while it may not be "growing" by leaps and bounds, has survived down through the millenias.

Judaism has survived despite all odds.

I don't see Mormonism achieving that kind of immortality. It fancies itself on the same footing as the Jewish kingdom. But the mentality is worlds apart.

Mormonism is dying from within, because it can't sustain itself on the fraud it's existed on since its inception. The more people learn of it, the more will be exiting. It's just a matter of time.

Because it's a fractional cult, its numbers are dwindling.

[_ludwigm]

Mormons number in population roughly the same as the Jewish population, worldwide.

App. 15 million Mormons, most inactive. And between 12-13 million Jewish people roughly.

Jews make up less than 1% of the world population. Mormonism must be pretty close to that percentile.

Then, compare the number of Jewish Nobel laureates and Mormon Nobel laureates. The rate is ~195 vs. 1. (I've used "~" because wikipedia gives only % - 22 or 24 - instead of exact number; and I didn't count them...)
That one Mormon is Paul D. Boyer.

____________________________________________
Then the worldwide known artists... The spectrum is wide.
Now, I list only the conductors of Vienna New Year's Concert :

Daniel Barenboim

Daniel Barenboim (German: [baːrənboim], Hebrew: דניאל ברנבוים; born 15 November 1942) is an Argentine pianist and conductor. Currently, he is general music director of La Scala in Milan, the Berlin State Opera, and the Staatskapelle Berlin; he previously served as Music Director of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and the Orchestre de Paris. Barenboim is also known for his work with the West–Eastern Divan Orchestra, a Seville-based orchestra of young Arab and Israeli musicians, and as a resolute critic of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories.
...
Daniel Barenboim was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, to Argentinian Jewish parents, Aida (née Schuster) and Enrique Barenboim.

Mariss Jansons

Mariss Ivars Georgs Jansons (born 14 January 1943) is a Latvian conductor, the son of conductor Arvīds Jansons and the singer Iraida Jansons.
...
Iraida Jansons, who was Jewish, gave birth to her son in hiding in Riga, Latvia, after being smuggled out of the Riga Ghetto, where Iraida's father and brother were murdered by the Nazis.

Josef Krips

In 1938, the Nazi annexation of Austria (or Anschluss) forced Krips to leave the country. (He was raised a Roman Catholic, but would have been excluded from musical activity because his father was born Jewish.)

Lorin Maazel

Maazel was born to Jewish American parents of Russian origin in Neuilly-sur-Seine, France, and brought up in the United States, primarily at his parents' home in the city of Pittsburgh's Oakland neighborhood.
...
Maazel was a Commander of the Légion d'honneur of the French Republic and of the Finnish Order of the Lion. He was decorated with the Bundesverdienstkreuz of the Federal Republic of Germany. On 27 May 2013, he received an honorary membership of the Vienna State Opera and the "Groszes Goldenes Verdienstkreuz" of Austria.

Any worldwide known Mormon - or of Mormon background - musicians around? Nobody? What a pity...

[_The CCC]

Mormons number in population roughly the same as the Jewish population, worldwide.

App. 15 million Mormons, most inactive. And between 12-13 million Jewish people roughly.

Jews make up less than 1% of the world population. Mormonism must be pretty close to that percentile.

Nonetheless, Mormonism is dying off. Whereas Judaism while it may not be "growing" by leaps and bounds, has survived down through the millenias.

Judaism has survived despite all odds.

I don't see Mormonism achieving that kind of immortality. It fancies itself on the same footing as the Jewish kingdom. But the mentality is worlds apart.

Mormonism is dying from within, because it can't sustain itself on the fraud it's existed on since its inception. The more people learn of it, the more will be exiting. It's just a matter of time.

Because it's a fractional cult, its numbers are dwindling.

From 6 members to 15,000,000 members in less than 200 years. That's pretty good growth. Jews have had some 4,000 years and has the same number of members.