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Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—(not cursed cause he prayed in the garden)

Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.(not by sweating in the garden)

Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.(on the cross the blood was shed, not sweated.)

Psalm 22:16 For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet—(cross prophecy, not garden)

Isa 53 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.(no wounds or piercing in the garden)

Hebrews 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.(The cross he endured, not the garden)

The Bible teaches the Atonement happened on the Cross, even the Book of Mormon agrees

1 Nephi 11:33
And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.

Yet Mormon leaders teach it was at the garden


The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints does not view the atonement of Christ in the biblical and historical Christian manner. Instead of the atonement occurring on the cross, Mormonism teaches that the atonement occurred primarily in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus shed His blood. Please consider the following quotes from a BYU professor and the Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie.

•BYU professor Robert J. Matthews, who on page 282 of his book, A Bible! A Bible!, wrote, "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood-more so than on the cross."

•Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie, stated, "Where and under what circumstances was the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God made? Was it on the Cross of Calvary or in the Garden of Gethsemane? It is to the Cross of Christ that most Christians look when centering their attention upon the infinite and eternal atonement. And certainly the sacrifice of our Lord was completed when he was lifted up by men; also, that part of his life and suffering is more dramatic and, perhaps, more soul stirring. But in reality the pain and suffering, the triumph and grandeur, of the atonement took place primarily in Gethsemane," (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, vol. 1, p. 774,

You are correct. As I recall it was the Garden where Jesus bled from "every pore," as he cried his heart out to God in heaven.

What an awful place to be in, for the Messiah.

It's incomprehensible to me that amount of suffering whether in Gethsemane or on the cross. The one was just a precursor of the other.

AmyJo wrote:You are correct. As I recall it was the Garden where Jesus bled from "every pore," as he cried his heart out to God in heaven.

So He contracted a rapid Ebola virus in the Garden and cured himself? Heck, even the Ebola virus does not cause that amount of cellular disruption. Maybe it was a matter transmitter disruption. That happened in the first Star Trek movie. Sounds more like a miraculous regeneration than an atonement.

by the way, the Jews had an aversion to blood. How did this story originate? Did Poe or Lovecraft have a hand in its creation or inspiration?

moksha wrote:

AmyJo wrote:You are correct. As I recall it was the Garden where Jesus bled from "every pore," as he cried his heart out to God in heaven.

So He contracted a rapid Ebola virus in the Garden and cured himself? Heck, even the Ebola virus does not cause that amount of cellular disruption. Maybe it was a matter transmitter disruption. That happened in the first Star Trek movie. Sounds more like a miraculous regeneration than an atonement.

by the way, the Jews had an aversion to blood. How did this story originate? Did Poe or Lovecraft have a hand in its creation or inspiration?

The agony for the Messiah was when he took on the weight of the world in the Garden. If you were going to be hung on a cross and crucified for the sins of the world, the sheer agony of that awareness overcame Jesus. He was already paying for what was yet to be. The crucifixion was the culmination of his time on earth, but was more the "anti-climax" of what had already taken form leading up to that. At least that's how I've understood it to mean.

How did the story originate? None other than whoever wrote the old book. Not the Book of Mormon. The other one. Shimon Peres refers to it as "the people of the book."

AmyJo wrote:The agony for the Messiah was when he took on the weight of the world in the Garden. If you were going to be hung on a cross and crucified for the sins of the world, the sheer agony of that awareness overcame Jesus. He was already paying for what was yet to be. The crucifixion was the culmination of his time on earth, but was more the "anti-climax" of what had already taken form leading up to that. At least that's how I've understood it to mean.

Even the Proto-Conservatives on trial at their judgment in Nuremberg faced certain death more stoically than this. As God incarnate in the flesh, He knew how things would turn out. Using that time for prayerful meditation made more sense than starting a full body hemorrhage.

Jesus was about to leave behind a life he had on earth among those He dearly loved. Jesus was required to become sin for our redemption. That is no small feat for a perfect being. Jesus was going to experience separation from the Father. That's pretty catastrophic for 1/3 of a Triune essence, if not for the Father and the Holy Spirit as well!

moksha wrote:

AmyJo wrote:The agony for the Messiah was when he took on the weight of the world in the Garden. If you were going to be hung on a cross and crucified for the sins of the world, the sheer agony of that awareness overcame Jesus. He was already paying for what was yet to be. The crucifixion was the culmination of his time on earth, but was more the "anti-climax" of what had already taken form leading up to that. At least that's how I've understood it to mean.

Even the Proto-Conservatives on trial at their judgment in Nuremberg faced certain death more stoically than this. As God incarnate in the flesh, He knew how things would turn out. Using that time for prayerful meditation made more sense than starting a full body hemorrhage.

Moksha, don't worry too much. In Luke it says that he sweat like drops of blood. I do not know a Bible that said that he was actually hemorrhaging. My Bible notes that the verse making the comparison is not preset in all early manuscripts. The point of that may be uncertain but Matthew Mark and John are silent about any bleeding or sweating like blood.

I think Jesus faith should be given more respect. As a fully human person Jesus had no way of knowing for sure how his death would turn out except having faith that God would complete it for good. I think for Jesus to die for us he would have to die with our kind of uncertainty.

huckelberry wrote:
Moksha, don't worry too much. In Luke it says that he sweat like drops of blood. I do not know a Bible that said that he was actually hemorrhaging. My Bible notes that the verse making the comparison is not preset in all early manuscripts. The point of that may be uncertain, but Matthew Mark and John are silent about any bleeding or sweating like blood.

Wonder if the other two were silent because they had never seen such an occurrence. This physiological impossibility seems like such an odd thing for we LDS to base an entirely new concept of the atonement.

Makebelieve for peculiarities sake is just one more head shaker. It's like if we based our entire concept of Church patriarchy on Balaam's talking donkey, it might be peculiar but is it right?.

Mittens wrote:...(snip)...

Yet Mormon leaders teach it was at the garden

Yet, you only provide a singular reference for your plural indictment

Mittens wrote: The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints does not view the atonement of Christ in the biblical and historical Christian manner. Instead of the atonement occurring on the cross, Mormonism teaches that the atonement occurred primarily in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus shed His blood. Please consider the following quotes from a BYU professor and the Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie.

•BYU professor Robert J. Matthews, who on page 282 of his book, A Bible! A Bible!, wrote, "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood-more so than on the cross."

This author and the cited writing is neither church doctrine nor a source for official church teaching.

Mittens wrote:•Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie, stated, "Where and under what circumstances was the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God made? Was it on the Cross of Calvary or in the Garden of Gethsemane? It is to the Cross of Christ that most Christians look when centering their attention upon the infinite and eternal atonement. And certainly the sacrifice of our Lord was completed when he was lifted up by men; also, that part of his life and suffering is more dramatic and, perhaps, more soul stirring. But in reality the pain and suffering, the triumph and grandeur, of the atonement took place primarily in Gethsemane," (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, vol. 1, p. 774,

While this reference is certainly more in line with your conclusion it does not exclude the work on the cross.
McConkie even notes that the atonement was "completed" upon the cross, but merely notes that the bulk of the work occurred in the Garden....yet maintains that the atonement was a compilation of the 2 parts.

Nevertheless, I suppose one has to look more into what the requirements from God were for the atonement rather than for the rather ambiguous conclusions of men as to where when and for how long the atonement began and ended.
What say you?
Does God give specific mention as to what the conditions of the atonement were to be?
Does the suffering in the garden serve no purpose to the atonement and thus was just an excessive and unnecessary prelude?
I would be curious as to how you would explain away such a significant event within its context.

I will wait for your response