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there is a long and unsavory tradition in the United States–going back to the very earliest days of European colonization–of attempts to insert Europeans into Native American history. These attempts have taken many forms....Roman Jews in Arizona (the Tucson Artifacts) (Burgess 2009); the Lost Tribes of Israel in Ohio (the Newark Holy Stones) (Lepper and Gill 2000); and strange mixtures of various ancient Old World peoples...

[This] attention is merely the latest iteration of a long tradition of emphasizing completely unsubstantiated hypotheses of European contributions to Native American prehistory. The fact is that they run counter to the consensus of over a century of research by hundreds of scholars in multiple disciplines.... [and] they are doing so with complete unawareness—or worse, disregard—for the ways in which this narrative has been used over the past several centuries as a tool to de-legitimize Native Americans’ connections to their own history.
https://violentmetaphors.com/2014/03/10 ... ypothesis/

Lemmie wrote:there is a long and unsavory tradition in the United States–going back to the very earliest days of European colonization–of attempts to insert Europeans into Native American history. These attempts have taken many forms....Roman Jews in Arizona (the Tucson Artifacts) (Burgess 2009); the Lost Tribes of Israel in Ohio (the Newark Holy Stones) (Lepper and Gill 2000); and strange mixtures of various ancient Old World peoples...

[This] attention is merely the latest iteration of a long tradition of emphasizing completely unsubstantiated hypotheses of European contributions to Native American prehistory. The fact is that they run counter to the consensus of over a century of research by hundreds of scholars in multiple disciplines.... [and] they are doing so with complete unawareness—or worse, disregard—for the ways in which this narrative has been used over the past several centuries as a tool to de-legitimize Native Americans’ connections to their own history.
https://violentmetaphors.com/2014/03/10 ... ypothesis/

Lemmie wrote:David McKane, I see you are again responding to the exact same question with "you are mistaken," but now you are presenting a different source.

Before that is discussed, would you please respond to my question from the last round, where your "you are mistaken" link did NOT in any way support your position? My question is highlighted below in red:

Lemmie wrote:

bomgeography wrote:I think your source is mistaken. The genetic link between native Americans out side of North America is X2A'j and its in Iran no where else. See parsimony tree

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_X_mtDNA.shtml
X2
◦X2a'j
_◦X2a: found among Native North Americans
__◦X2a1
___◦X2a1a: found among the Sioux and Tanoan speakers
____◦X2a1a1
___◦X2a1b: found among the Ojibwe people
____◦X2a1b1
_____◦X2a1b1a
___◦X2a1c: found among the Ojibwe people
_◦X2a2: found in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland
◦X2j: found in North Africa

Where in the chart above does it show "X2A'j and its in Iran"?

Your own chart above agrees with my source and it does NOT support your assertion.

Also, you have not responded to anyone's comments about your assertion, you just keep restating it with faulty and inappropriate links. Please note that failing to address to this statement below and just re-posting your faulty assumption with yet another bogus link is NOT a legitimate response:

Because subhaplogroup X2a is not found in the Middle East and is not particularly closely related to the forms of haplogroup X that are found in that region, the haplogroup X data do not provide any evidence for a close biological relationship between Hopewell and Middle Eastern populations or any support for a direct migration from the Middle East to the Americas in pre-Columbian times.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/civilizat ... l_messages

David McKane wrote:The middle east fiery flying serpents match up with native American middle east dna.

bomgeography wrote:Here is some clarification and the entire quote in full

“We surveyed our Old World haplogroup X mtDNAs for the five
diagnostic X2a mutations [A200G and G16213A in the control region
and A8913G, A12397G, and T14502C in the coding region] and found a
match only for the transition at np 12397 [nucleotide position A12397G]
in a single X2* sequence from Iran.

X1 T5302C, A14587G, T15654C, (C16104T), T16278C!!
X1'2'3 A153G
X1'3 T146C!
X1a A6359G, C7533T, C8140T
X1c G7337A, T9615C
X2 T195C!, G1719A
X2a A200G, A8913G, T14502C, G16213A
X2a'j A12397G
X2a1 G143A, A225G!, T3552C, T16093C
https://www.familytreedna.com/mtDNA-Hap ... tions.aspx

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_X_mtDNA.shtml
X2
◦X2a'j
_◦X2a: found among Native North Americans
__◦X2a1
___◦X2a1a: found among the Sioux and Tanoan speakers
____◦X2a1a1
___◦X2a1b: found among the Ojibwe people
____◦X2a1b1
_____◦X2a1b1a
___◦X2a1c: found among the Ojibwe people
_◦X2a2: found in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland
◦X2j: found in North Africa

Lemmie wrote:

bomgeography wrote:Here is some clarification and the entire quote in full

“We surveyed our Old World haplogroup X mtDNAs for the five
diagnostic X2a mutations [A200G and G16213A in the control region
and A8913G, A12397G, and T14502C in the coding region] and found a
match only for the transition at np 12397 [nucleotide position A12397G]
in a single X2* sequence from Iran.

X1 T5302C, A14587G, T15654C, (C16104T), T16278C!!
X1'2'3 A153G
X1'3 T146C!
X1a A6359G, C7533T, C8140T
X1c G7337A, T9615C
X2 T195C!, G1719A
X2a A200G, A8913G, T14502C, G16213A
X2a'j A12397G
X2a1 G143A, A225G!, T3552C, T16093C

https://www.familytreedna.com/mtDNA-Hap ... tions.aspx

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_X_mtDNA.shtml
X2
◦X2a'j
_◦X2a: found among Native North Americans
__◦X2a1
___◦X2a1a: found among the Sioux and Tanoan speakers
____◦X2a1a1
___◦X2a1b: found among the Ojibwe people
____◦X2a1b1
_____◦X2a1b1a
___◦X2a1c: found among the Ojibwe people
_◦X2a2: found in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland
◦X2j: found in North Africa

First of all, if you are going to present your research and expect to be taken seriously, you need to be accurate in your quoting and attribution. The first paragraph you quote is NOT from EITHER of the links you gave, it is from this article:

Origin and Diffusion of mtDNA Haplogroup X by Maere Reidla, et al., (2003)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180497/

Second, from the article I linked above, you cherry picked a couple of sentences. Did you read the last two sentences in that very same paragraph from which you took them?

Yet, the nonsynonymous substitution at np 12397 converting threonine to alanine cannot be regarded a conservative marker, as it has also been observed in two different phylogenetic contexts.... Therefore, the scenario that the threonine to alanine change in the haplogroup X background is indeed due to recurrence appears most plausible.

The first sentence of the next paragraph shows that the authors have concluded exactly the opposite of what you have concluded:

These findings leave unanswered the question of the geographic source of Native American X2a in the Old World,

Not only does your own source again not agree with your conclusions, but the following article published in 2015 has been presented to you numerous times for further explanation.

Does Mitochondrial Haplogroup X Indicate Ancient Trans-Atlantic Migration to the Americas? A Critical Re-Evaluation, Jennifer A. Raff & Deborah A. Bolnick (2015)
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1 ... ccess=true

Did you read this article? It's hard to imagine you have, the way you continue to insist on specific invalid and scientifically unsupportable conclusions that are thoroughly refuted within its pages.

Here's the part most pertinent to your misunderstanding regarding S2a'j:

The geographic distribution of X2a’j haplotypes —especially those with some of the defining mutations for X2a (indicating that they belong to the lineage that led to X2a) — would be informative to this ques-tion, but no contemporary or ancient individuals belonging to these lineages have been identified, with the possible exception of one individual from Iran with the X2a’j defining transition at mitochondrial nucleotide position 12397. However, because this tran-sition has been observed in other haplogroups and is known to occur recurrently, it is unclear if this Iranian individual belongs to the X2a’j lineage or not (Reidla et al. 2003). X2a’s sister clade, X2j, is also extremely rare, being found in just a few contem-porary individuals from Iran and Egypt (Fernandes et al. 2012). It is possible that the common ancestor of X2a and X2j originated there, but without identify-ing more individuals bearing X2j or X2a’j lineages, any inferences about the geographic origins of X2a’j or X2a are very tenuous.

Thus, at this time, there is simply no evidence that X2a evolved in the Near East, Europe, or anywhere in West Eurasia….

Lemmie wrote:You beat me to it taperrider!