wenglund wrote:Mister Scratch wrote:wenglund wrote:Would I be correct to surmize that this topic has become uncomfortable, and thus of disinterest to most here?
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Nope, you wouldn't. I'm still waiting for you to get into specifics.
I gave you the chance to get into specifics when I suggested: "since you seem a bit impatient, perhaps you can jump ahead by using the GENERIC list and post a specific sketch-out of YOURSELF. Then, we can all give you feedback on how well we think you did."
However, since you seem reluctant to introspect in that way, or reluctant to post those introspections (for reasons the may be illustrative to explore), let me get into the specifics by openly and honestly introspecting about myself, and by take responsibility for difficulties I have had with others.
For the longest time at ZLMB I would verbally duke it out with antagonists against my faith. As I saw things, they would take a verbal swing at my faith, and I would take a verbal swing back at them. They would hurt me, so I would hurt them back (in the hopes of discouraging their swinging at my faith and me, and hurting us both).
There were many times that people told me that I was going about things the wrong way, and actually undermining my Christ-like ideal, and they encouraged me to take a kinder and gentler approach.
I didn't accept this because I saw where others had taken that kind of approach without success. In fact, it appeared at times to make matters worse--i.e. as I understood it, the kinder/gentler approach was perceived by the antagonists as a show of weakness that was deserving of more contempt and exploitation. I figured that the brutish antagonist only understood and respected brute force in return.
Because, at that time, I lacked honest introspection and was unwilling to acknowledge my own personal responsibility for the verbally violent interactions, this went on for years and resulted in an escalation of the verbal violance and even alienation of me from people on my own side of the issue (which I, because of my lack of honest introspection and unwillingness to take personal responsibility, found self-serving, though still unworkable, excuses to explain away the lack of success in meeting my objective for stopping the hurt perpetrated towards my faith).
Huh. This sounds weird to me, especially in lieu of your behavior on Mormon Think Tank. It doesn't seem to me like your introspection actually accomplished anything.
[uote]However, in reading several books on anger, hate, bigotry, and the cycle of violence, and after openning myself up to honest introspection and taking personal responsibility for my part in the verbal violence, I came to understand that the attacks against me and my faith were because those doing the attacking viewed themselves in the same way I viewed myself and my faith: as victims who felt justified in lashing out and protecting ourselves. I understood that, with rare exception, the verbal swipes were not gratuitous, but intended to stop the pain and hurt. I realized that it was the perception of victimization that was at the very center of the cycle of violence.
I understood that in order to extricate myself from that cycle, I would need to, at the very least, stop viewing myself as a victim.[/quote]
I, for one, Wade, do not view myself as a "victim." I view myself as an "advocate."
That is easier said than done. When someone is taking a verbal and hurtful swipe at the part of you that is precious and dear, it is very difficult not to view yourself as being victimized, and naturally move to protect yourself from, and hopefully discourage, such attacks.
This is where you and I differ. Nothing "precious and dear" has been attacked, in my opinion.
But, by viewing the verbal and hurtful swipes as a function of perceived victimization, and taking responsibility for my actions, and understanding that my counter-attacks may also be interpreted as further victimization, and by de-personalizing things and by not REACTING and being HYPERSENSATIVE, but more understanding (I did this by way of changing my self-perception from one of warrior and defender to one of healer), I could extricate myself from the cycle of violence. And, for the most part, it worked (bad habits die hard).
And, I figured that since it worked for me, it may also work for those who perceive they have been or are victimized by me and my faith. If I could get them to be open to honest introspection and take personal responsibility for their part in the difficulties they have had with the Church, and correct the possible cognitive distortion driving what I see as false perceptions of victimization, and understand how they can extricate themselves from the cycle of violence, that would stop or deminish the cycle of violence, itself, since there would be no one left perpetrating the violence and/or no one left perceiving themselves as victims.
Now, had I not openned myself up to honest and healthy introspection, and had I not been willing to accept personal responsibility for my part in the difficulties I was having with others, I would still be dysfunctionally feeling victimized, and still deeply involved in the escalating cycle of violence. I would have continued to be hurt and to hurt. I would have alienated myself more from my perceived enemies, and also further offended and alientated myself from my friends and those on my side.
As it is, there are a number of burned bridges that are in need of extensive repair, and some fires that I need to stop lighting and put out. But, at the very least I don't allow myself to be hurt so much by the verbal swipes, and my quality of life has been greatly improved as a result thereof.
What thoughts do you have about this specific example, and how do you think it may relate to yourselves?
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
I really appreciate your honesty on this, Wade, and have real empathy for your account. But I don't feel that this relates to me at all. I suppose I am guilty of "verbal violence" to some extent with Pahoran, but I am done with that, as I acknowledged on another thread. Further, I do not feel like a "victim" at all... So... Don't really know what else to add, though I enjoyed reading your remarks on this subject.