LDS Church expands statement on political neutrality ...

[_rcrocket]

There is no such excommunicatable offense in the church known as "insubordination". Quinn was excommunicated for his open and flagrant homosexuality and his attempts to discredit the church publically in his writings for the primary purpose of forcing the church to accept homosexuality as legitimate within the gospel framework.

You're wrong ... yet again. According to Quinn's own account of his excommunication, in his article "Dilemmas of Feminists & Intellectuals in the Contemporary LDS Church" (published in Sunstone, June 1994, pp. 67-73 & n.2), the letter notifying Quinn that he had been excommunicated stated that the verdict was based on Quinn's repeated refusal to appear at the disciplinary council or to meet with the SP, which constituted "conduct contrary to the laws and order of the Church." No mention of homosexuality or writings.

EDITED TO ADD:

The statement in the italicized portion of your post (quoted above) is particularly absurd, in light of the fact that Quinn didn't even 'come out' publicly as gay until nearly 3 years after he was ex'ed for insubordination.

Untrue. I was an eyewitness to his coming out to his collegues in 1980.

P

[_Rollo Tomasi]

The statement in the italicized portion of your post (quoted above) is particularly absurd, in light of the fact that Quinn didn't even 'come out' publicly as gay until nearly 3 years after he was ex'ed for insubordination.

Untrue. I was an eyewitness to his coming out to his collegues in 1980.

BS. You were just an "eyewitness" (and likely participant in) to the rumor-mongering among DCP and his ilk going on about Quinn.

[_Coggins7]

Untrue. I was an eyewitness to his coming out to his collegues in 1980.

Thank you Plutarch, and enough said for the intellectual credibility of Sunstone, an organ of the tiny yet vocal and militant LDS Left and not necessarily an honest broker of all things transpiring among the culturla Mormons.

[_Coggins7]

BS. You were just an "eyewitness" (and likely participant in) to the rumor-mongering among DCP and his ilk going on about Quinn.

This wagon circling duck-and-cover behavior regarding Quinn is becoming a real romp. Quinn apostatized from the church both behaviorally and intellectually and did so with eyes wide open. Quinn's homosexuality (and his personal making of peace with it rather than trying to conform himself to the teaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ), as well as his long standing agenda of defamation and criticism of the church in an attempt to get it to alter its position on homosexuality within the church (as with similar Roman Catholic leftists) are well known and of long standing.

Quinn was excommunicated most probably for both his private moral lapses and his public assaults on the church as a public intellectual. Any church, which is a private institution supported by the private contributions of its faithful adherants, reserves the right to precisely such action. Sonja Johnson was not excommunicated for her zany feminist beliefs, but for publically encouraging the general public to refuse to let missionaries into their homes to teach them until the church altered its opposition to the ERA and other feminists causes (or Mormon feminist causes, like the ordination of woman to the Priesthood) If you have become utterly hostile to the beliefs of the community of faith of which you are a member, and have committed yourself to its defamation and deligitmization, it seems to me that the only move that community of faith has, at that point, is to dissassociate itself from such an enemy, both for the benefit of that community of faith and the hostile critic. As I mentioned before, Quinn should not want to be a part of the church if the church would have him as a member (bouncing off Groucho again), by which I mean anyone who would really want to remake a religion in his own image has already conceded that the religion in question is not revealed religion but a sociaological construct.

In that case, religion itself becomes nothing more than a glorified cult of navel gazing.


Loran

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Quinn was excommunicated most probably for both his private moral lapses and his public assaults on the church as a public intellectual.

Baloney -- the Church itself (via Quinn's SP) said he was ex'ed for "conduct contrary to the laws and order of the Church," specifically, Quinn's repeated refusal to meet with the SP or to attend the disciplinary council. If they truly 'had him' on apostasy or immoral behavior, then those would have been the bases for his excommunication ... but they weren't.

If you have become utterly hostile to the beliefs of the community of faith of which you are a member, and have committed yourself to its defamation and deligitmization, it seems to me that the only move that community of faith has, at that point, is to dissassociate itself from such an enemy, both for the benefit of that community of faith and the hostile critic.

I agree, but that is not what they did with Quinn, whether you like it or not.

[_guy sajer]

Untrue. I was an eyewitness to his coming out to his collegues in 1980.

Thank you Plutarch, and enough said for the intellectual credibility of Sunstone, an organ of the tiny yet vocal and militant LDS Left and not necessarily an honest broker of all things transpiring among the culturla Mormons.

So now Plutarch/Coggins7 is carrying on a conversation with himself?

I suppose this is a step up from posting under other persons' screen names.

[_Coggins7]

I'm not Plutarch. Get a life.