Prof. P. Continues to Attack GIMR!!!

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_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

Plutarch wrote:I don't remember fleeing any scene. I just can't post every day.

P


True enough. The so-called "winners" in internet debates often times correlate pretty strongly with the amount of time one has to write up long and dense posts.

Some of us, after all, have jobs :-)
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Plutarch wrote:I scarcely know any of those folks you mention,


No kidding! And yet the beat marches on. The real irony is that you went ahead and deleted your name and location from the area below your screen name!

In terms of me being a "henchman," I stand convicted.


What, you mean you've been given marching orders from the Brethren, or some other of your ecclesiastical leaders?

I don't remember fleeing any scene. I just can't post every day.

P


I do! I had to ask you at least a dozen times to produce the text of that MMM letter. Boy, you will never live that one down, my friend!
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

I scarcely know any of those folks you mention, although I was with Ashment at the University of Chicago.


Your familiarity with them, or lack thereof, is entirely irrelevant. The point is this. People have legitimate cause to post anonymously, especially when it comes to criticism of the LDS faith. IYou need to delegitimize these causes, but you are not making a compelling case. I know of no other religion - except Islam - that takes concerted measures to investigate its own critics, in order to intimidate and muzzle them. The fact that you are trying to lure people into giving out their real identities, for the sake of “courage”(laugh!) is another indicator that what I say is true. You feel like you need their identities because when it comes to defending the LDS faith against critics, attacking them personally is frequently the only way to go.

The examples I provided above is standard fare in LDS apologia, and I would say the Church itself, generally speaking. Mormons have not shunned gossip and back-biting as President Benson advised. The Church has instead embraced it and found ways to use it to its advantage. It has lowered itself to the ethical standards and methods used by politicians.

I don't remember fleeing any scene. I just can't post every day.


Let me refresh your memory

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/discus ... &start=100

http://www.mormondiscussions.com/discus ... .php?t=730

You were refuted on a number of issues, including facts regarding Christian history, US policy in the Mid-East and anonymity in scholarship.

It has become axiomatic that you participate in discussions just long enough to make an ass of yourself, and then you bail out.
_wenglund
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Post by _wenglund »

dartagnan wrote:Wade, I noticed you’re just doing the same thing over again. Whenever your ability to properly psychoanalyze is brought into question, you go into denial mode again and blame the observer you wish to analyze. You still have not addressed your hypocrisy and obvious agenda, which is manifested in the fact that your buddies at MAD are not being offered your services. If I insisted on using self-depreciating signatures (like DCP does) by my online nemeses, then maybe you could make a case that I could benefit from therapy. You and I joined this forum on the same day. I have yet to break 150 posts while you’re already over 800. Who need therapy?

To be sure, thus far all you have done is spin things to suit your apologetics. You’ve always been about apologetics wade and nothing seems to have changed. Your claims to actually care about individuals and about striving for objectivity, is just another ruse. But maybe you don’t expect intelligent people to realize it – perhaps even yourself.


The truth of the matter is, I greatly admire your intellect, your sharp wit, and your seemingly in-exhaustable passion. I think you have an enormous amount of good to offer humanity in general, and you and your family in particular.

It is just that I think it a complete waste for any of us to ruminate and obsess counterproductively over past issues--particularly those issues that are rather petty in the whole scheme of things, and to interact in a belligerant and dysfunctional ways.

I think we both can learn much from Dr. Peterson's approach, even given his self-depricating humor. There is a reason that he is widely sought-after for discourse and is thought highly credible by members and critics alike--and this in spite of the sustained and vicious character assasinations and smear campaigns marshalled by certain quarters.

And, there is a reason the same may not be as true for me and you. Sure, we may have been able to draw the interest of others like a crowd amassing around a fight. But, in all honesty, I get the impression that people have had to hold their noses when interacting with or observing us, and it is everything they can do to keep from bolting because of our repelling behavior. Both of our credibility has gone into the crapper. In short, our approach (governed in large part by our insecurities and defensiveness) hasn't worked. What we intended for good, has been for naught or for bad.

For my own part, I began to recognize this a year or so ago, and I have since attempted to change, and to emmulate some of the approaches of people on both sides who have been socially successful.

However, for whatever reason you seem to have gone into denial about this, and are locked into the bad habits, and seem stubbornly resistant to letting go.

Granted, there are other apologist who are similarly disposed to whom I have yet to offer my services. That actually is by design, rather than "hypocrisy". I figure that the best way to effect a change in them, is to first demonstrate a measure of success derived from change in myself.

The problem comes, though, in demonstrating the success. If I change for what I believe to be the better, and it doesn't effect a positive change in those I interact with (in other words, if I raise my level discourse, and the critics I interact with don't raise their's), then they (the apologist similarly disposed to you and I) may not have reason to change, but will continue status quo.

In other words, if you and others don't like the way that certain apologists have been treating you, then you may encourage them to change by elevating your discourse with me. And, if you do elevate your discourse, I promise that you will, at the very least, feel and think better of yourselves, but also greatly improve your chances of better relating with others.

That wonderful mind, wit, and passion that you have, will then be a functional instrument for doing good and marvelous things.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Articles by FARMS and FAIR hardly qualify as scholarly. And from what I've seen of Pundits, it's the likes of the Dude who take the scholarly honors there.


Nothing but a pose Harmon, nothing but a pose. Based on your performance here (especially on the DDT thread, which involves easily checked and available information), in particular with regard to your, like Scratch, woefully inadaquate knowledge of core LDS doctrine and philosophy, Most of the scholars at FARMS and most of the people at FAIR, could easily defeat you in the arena of ideas and the best of them would take you to the cleaners faster than Monika Lewinski can change her underwear.

The idea that the scholarly essays and reports produced by FARMS are not scholarly is quite cute, but all the cuter for the implication that the poorly researched and thought out arguments to post here on a regular basis are some kind of antidote.

If you ever really did undergraduate work in any serious discipline Harmony, it must have been at the University of Whoville. You wouldn't know it from 9% of what you write.
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

Coggins7 wrote:
Articles by FARMS and FAIR hardly qualify as scholarly. And from what I've seen of Pundits, it's the likes of the Dude who take the scholarly honors there.


Nothing but a pose Harmon, nothing but a pose.


What's a pose? The Dude? I concede defeat. The Dude is smarter than me. So is Tarski. Heck, so is DCP! So are a lot of people. You, on the other hand, are not in that elite group, no matter how much you wish you were.

Based on your performance here (especially on the DDT thread, which involves easily checked and available information),


I backed up my statements with appropriate quotes and facts. That you didn't like them, or didn't read them, is not my problem. You declared yourself the winner in a nonexistent debate. No one else did.

in particular with regard to your, like Scratch, woefully inadaquate knowledge of core LDS doctrine and philosophy,


Please demonstrate this allegation with appropriate quotes and foundation. Until you do that, you are just a wannabe, Loran. And you're saggin'.

Most of the scholars at FARMS and most of the people at FAIR, could easily defeat you in the arena of ideas and the best of them would take you to the cleaners faster than Monika Lewinski can change her underwear.


And are you including yourself in this exalted group? There are lots of people in this world that are smarter than me, Loran. So?

The idea that the scholarly essays and reports produced by FARMS are not scholarly is quite cute, but all the cuter for the implication that the poorly researched and thought out arguments to post here on a regular basis are some kind of antidote.


From what I've read on FARMS, scholarly doesn't even come close to describing them. Perhaps you could link a particularly scholarly FARMS product and we'll see how quickly I can tear it apart.

If you ever really did undergraduate work in any serious discipline Harmony, it must have been at the University of Whoville. You wouldn't know it from 9% of what you write.


9%? Geez, you make me laugh, Loran.
_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

Obvious typo Ms. Wizard. That was supposed to be a solid ninty percent. I've now raised it to 190 just for that remark.
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